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Suggestions needed: Condensing steam in space
I need something that’s completely automated and can extract 100 tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam = 100 tonnes of water?). This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly resistant to fouling. It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible, and use as little electricity as possible. My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90 days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total loss. I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for these purposes? I appreciate any help I can get! ======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Note, not really on-topic, but intriuging and I want to see where this develops. |
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Suggestions needed: Condensing steam in space
On Oct 11, 6:44 pm, byblow wrote:
I need something that s completely automated and can extract 100 tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam 100 tonnes of water?). Yes. Conservation of mass. This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly resistant to fouling. Steam doesn't have dissolved solids. Wet steam, where there are water drops in the steam can carry over some solids. But the side of a heat exchanger that gets fouled is usually the side with the heat rise rather than the condensing side. It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible, and use as little electricity as possible. Condensing steam is an energy source rather than a sink. My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90 days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total loss. You have not stated the most important operating conditions. Is this on earth? Mars, the moon or free space (zero g)? The biggest problem (if in space) will be the radiator area. Mars, you could probably transfer the heat to the atmosphere. I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for these purposes? No. I appreciate any help I can get! MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Note, not really on-topic, but intriuging and I want to see where this develops. |
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Suggestions needed: Condensing steam in space
On Oct 12, 9:45 pm, Keith Henson wrote:
On Oct 11, 6:44 pm, byblow wrote: I need something that s completely automated and can extract 100 tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam = 100 tonnes of water?). Yes. Conservation of mass. This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly resistant to fouling. Steam doesn't have dissolved solids. Wet steam, where there are water drops in the steam can carry over some solids. But the side of a heat exchanger that gets fouled is usually the side with the heat rise rather than the condensing side. It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible, and use as little electricity as possible. Condensing steam is an energy source rather than a sink. Could you please expound upon this? I had thought of using the steam to spin a turbine for electricity, but since this would be in free space, I was concerned about a resulting need for radiators, which are heavy. Could something like a radiator serve as a steam condenser? If so, that could work nicely: The steam spins a turbine to generate electricity, then flows through a radiator (which uses no electricity) where it condenses. Would it be feasible to use electricity generated by the steam to actively refrigerate some part of the hardware to complement the radiators? My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90 days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total loss. You have not stated the most important operating conditions. Is this on earth? Mars, the moon or free space (zero g)? Free space in zero g. The biggest problem (if in space) will be the radiator area. Mars, you could probably transfer the heat to the atmosphere. I believe the radiators on the ISS have a capacity of ~ 1-tonne to 10 KW (heat). Any idea how many tonnes of ISS-quality radiators would be needed for the condensation of 100 tonnes of steam per day? Let's say the temperature of the steam is 600 kelvin and 5 tonnes of steam are produced per hour. I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for these purposes? No. Darn! I was really hoping the natural vacuum could be somehow useful for condensing or filtering the steam/water. Thank you very much for your help, Keith! If anything ever comes of this, I won't forget you. I appreciate any help I can get! MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Note, not really on-topic, but intriuging and I want to see where th is develops. |
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Suggestions needed: Condensing steam in space
On Oct 13, 8:30 am, byblow wrote:
On Oct 12, 9:45 pm, Keith Henson wrote: On Oct 11, 6:44 pm, byblow wrote: I need something that s completely automated and can extract 100 tonnes of water per day from steam (does 100 tonnes of steam 100 tonnes of water?). Yes. Conservation of mass. This condenser, heat exchanger or whatever has to function realiably despite lots of dissolved solids in the steam, so it has to be highly resistant to fouling. Steam doesn't have dissolved solids. Wet steam, where there are wate r drops in the steam can carry over some solids. But the side of a hea t exchanger that gets fouled is usually the side with the heat rise rather than the condensing side. It also has to be as compact as possible, weigh as little as possible , and use as little electricity as possible. Condensing steam is an energy source rather than a sink. Could you please expound upon this? I had thought of using the steam to spin a turbine for electricity, but since this would be in free space, I was concerned about a resulting need for radiators, which are heavy. Heat engines work by exploiting the temperature difference of a source and a cold sink. In space radiators are the only game in town to get rid of heat. Could something like a radiator serve as a steam condenser? If so, that could work nicely: The steam spins a turbine to generate electricity, then flows through a radiator (which uses no electricity) where it condenses. Would it be feasible to use electricity generated by the steam to actively refrigerate some part of the hardware to complement the radiators? My goal is to extract 4,800-6,000 tonnes of water from steam in 90 days or less. After that, I don't care if the condenser is a total loss. You have not stated the most important operating conditions. Is this on earth? Mars, the moon or free space (zero g)? Free space in zero g. Dr. Eric Drexler and I came up with on solution to this problem in 1979. http://www.nss.org/settlement/L5news/L5news1979.htm July and August issues. # Gas Entrained Solids - A Heat Transfer Fluid For Use In Space, Part 1 # by H. Keith Henson & K. Eric Drexler The numbers in the papers are still valid. The biggest problem (if in space) will be the radiator area. Mars, you could probably transfer the heat to the atmosphere. I believe the radiators on the ISS have a capacity of ~ 1-tonne to 10 KW (heat). Any idea how many tonnes of ISS-quality radiators would be needed for the condensation of 100 tonnes of steam per day? Let's say the temperature of the steam is 600 kelvin and 5 tonnes of steam are produced per hour. ISS radiators are extremely heavy for the power they radiate. It would be a very unusual design that condensed water at 600 deg K. I've read that condensers at power plants typically use a vacuum or partial vacuum to suck in steam, and also to expand it for more efficient cooling. Could the natural vacuum of space be used for thes e purposes? No. Darn! I was really hoping the natural vacuum could be somehow useful for condensing or filtering the steam/water. These exchanges have me wondering at the level of your physics and engineering. The net is loaded with resources to bring you up to speed. Thank you very much for your help, Keith! If anything ever comes of this, I won't forget you. If you want, email me. It's hkeithhenson (at) gmail (dot) com. Keith I appreciate any help I can get! MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Note, not really on-topic, but intriuging and I want to see where th is develops. |
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