OT - Military Channel

"Rick Jones" wrote in message
...
Dave Michelson wrote:
At a military show one day I was talking to a M-1 tank driver, and
he was bragging to everyone just how indestructable the thing was.
Nothing 'they got' he said can take us out. So, like the smart-ass I
am, I asked him if it could take an attack from an A-20?

He just glared at me, and I could tell what he was thinking. Which
was something like "I wonder if the ruskies have anything like an
A-20"?

I bet he was thinking it was some sort of upgraded A-10
Warthog/Thunderbolt-II Still, I doubt that what the A-20 carried
could take-out a contemporary M-1 (*perhaps* a direct hit with a 1000
pounder, but I cannot recall if the A-20 carried anything bigger than
500's) - now, a Lancaster with a Tallboy...


Ya I was thinking A-10 when I typed that, what's an A-20?




rick jones
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- Rick Jones
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"Rick Jones" wrote in message
...
Dale Carlson wrote:
My dad flew over 70 missions in a B-24, and got a share of exactly
one Jap fighter in all that time. I'd rather be in a fighter, a 20mm
cannon has a much longer range and destructive power than a fifty.

Apart from the previously maligned P-39, were there (m)any
WWII-serving US fighters with cannon? I was under the impression they
"all" had 50 cals.


Well I wasn't talking about B-17's vs US fighters, but vs German fighters.



Hmm, poking around a bit I see that the P-38 had the same 37mm cannon
as the P-39 (along with some 50 and 30 cal machine guns). The other
"big names" appear to have been machine gun armed.

rick jones
--
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On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 21:38:47 -0400, "Jonathan" wrote:

At a military show one day I was talking to a M-1 tank driver, and
he was bragging to everyone just how indestructable the thing was.
Nothing 'they got' he said can take us out. So, like the smart-ass I
am, I asked him if it could take an attack from an A-20?

Ya I was thinking A-10 when I typed that, what's an A-20?

Douglas A-20 Havoc, called the Boston by the British who used them in
large numbers. Light twin-engine bomber and night-fighter in the early
years of World War II.

The Havoc/Boston was rugged and dependable, but it didn't have a large
bomb capacity and wasn't very long-ranged. The A-26 Invader was
quickly designed and put into production to address those
shortcomings, making the A-26 one of the few wartime aircraft designed
with actual wartime lessons learned. It has a strong family
resemblance to the Havoc/Boston.

Brian

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:37:22 -0400, "Jonathan" wrote:

You gotta admire what Germany accomplished though back then.
The first time I saw a Me-262 in person at the DC Air and Space
museum, I was astonished at how modern it looked. It could've
been built in the seventies! Then I walk over and look at our first 'jet'
looking like a big fat tub that could hardly get off the ground.
No contest.

True, but look at our *second* jet, coming down the pike not far
behind and really intended to be the first US jet to go into combat.
The Lockheed P-80. The odds would have been even.

Brian

On Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:37:22 -0400, "Jonathan" wrote:

You gotta admire what Germany accomplished though back then.
The first time I saw a Me-262 in person at the DC Air and Space
museum, I was astonished at how modern it looked. It could've
been built in the seventies! Then I walk over and look at our first 'jet'
looking like a big fat tub that could hardly get off the ground.
No contest.

True, but look at our *second* jet, coming down the pike not far
behind and really intended to be the first US jet to go into combat.
The Lockheed P-80. The odds would have been even.

Brian

Brian Thorn wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:44:53 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

My main complaint is the selection of "Great Planes". I really
wouldn't consider the F-100, A-7, or A-26 "great".

I guess after a while you run out of the obvious ones, and end up with
choices like that.

Except they haven't had very many episodes. They just started Season 2
in July. I checked their website and they do have episodes on the
F-15, F-16, and F-18. I haven't seen them, though.

I've seen the F-15 one.

Last night, they
had an episode about the P-39. Yes, the Bell P-39 Airacobra. A "Great
Plane"? I don't think so,

Okay,so our pilots hated it and thought it was out to kill them ("Don't
give me a P-39, with the engine that's mounted behind; for it will
tumble and roll and dig a big hole; don't give me a P-39") but the
Russians loved them, and let's face it, it beats the hell out of a I-16
Rata.

and very little of the discussion in the
episode supported the "Great Plane" moniker. What's next, the TBD
Devastator as a "Great Plane"? Meanwhile, they haven't done an episode
on the Spitfire, F4U, SBD, DC-3, B-52, F-86, 707, Lancaster...

I think they are trying to not to cover territory already covered by
"Wings" or other aircraft shows, and that doesn't leave much.
You know what it's time for now, don't you?
The Brewster Buffalo!
Maybe it's time for a show called "Really Sucky Planes" featuring such
winners as the Buffalo and Skyshark, and then moving on to "Sucky Planes
Of The Luftwaffe" starting with the He-177.


All three of those aircraft had fairly long and successful operational
histories, and the program on the A-26 was interesting to watch, as it's
not that well known, and they did cover the A-20 Havoc in the same
episode.

Yeah, I liked that too. You don't see the Havoc on TV all that often.


You don't see the Havoc _anywhere_ all that much... I don't know if it
even showed up in war comics, and that's the sure sign that a aircraft
hasn't "made it". Hell, the Blackhawks had their Skyrockets, so even
_that_ got some publicity:
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/skyrockettm_1.htm


I had a Monogram model of a Invader as a kid, and frankly
didn't have a clue as to what is was or where it came from...it sure
didn't look like a Marauder of some sort:
http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com...-p6invader.JPG

I had that model, but it was in different box art by the time I bought
it in the 70s.


Turrets don't rotate... sign of bad model.
That thing goes way back in Monogram's history, when they first started
making all-plastic kits, rather than wooden ones with plastic detail
parts: http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/k...jacksonb26.htm


Which leaves a good question - why exactly was it later given a "B-26"
designation after it had already been used by the Marauder?

The Air Force put the A-26 back in service after the Widowmaker, um...
I mean Marauder had been retired. By that point, the Air Force had
discontinued the A (Attack) designation, so the Invader went back into
service under the B-26 designation. When the DoD standardized
designations in 1962 or so, "A" was reinstated and the Invader went
back to A-26.

My favorite "Wings" episode was the one where the B-17 was credited
with carrying ten _50 mm_ machine guns, which should have made any
German fighter very hesitant about attacking it.

I wish they'd re-run Wings somewhere, even if its 3:00am ET.

"Wings Of The Luftwaffe" and "Wings Of The Red Star" get rerun quite often.
Something that is missing is a good series on Japanese WW II aircraft.

Pat

Brian Thorn wrote:
On Sun, 16 Aug 2009 19:44:53 -0500, Pat Flannery
wrote:

My main complaint is the selection of "Great Planes". I really
wouldn't consider the F-100, A-7, or A-26 "great".

I guess after a while you run out of the obvious ones, and end up with
choices like that.

Except they haven't had very many episodes. They just started Season 2
in July. I checked their website and they do have episodes on the
F-15, F-16, and F-18. I haven't seen them, though.

I've seen the F-15 one.

Last night, they
had an episode about the P-39. Yes, the Bell P-39 Airacobra. A "Great
Plane"? I don't think so,

Okay,so our pilots hated it and thought it was out to kill them ("Don't
give me a P-39, with the engine that's mounted behind; for it will
tumble and roll and dig a big hole; don't give me a P-39") but the
Russians loved them, and let's face it, it beats the hell out of a I-16
Rata.

and very little of the discussion in the
episode supported the "Great Plane" moniker. What's next, the TBD
Devastator as a "Great Plane"? Meanwhile, they haven't done an episode
on the Spitfire, F4U, SBD, DC-3, B-52, F-86, 707, Lancaster...

I think they are trying to not to cover territory already covered by
"Wings" or other aircraft shows, and that doesn't leave much.
You know what it's time for now, don't you?
The Brewster Buffalo!
Maybe it's time for a show called "Really Sucky Planes" featuring such
winners as the Buffalo and Skyshark, and then moving on to "Sucky Planes
Of The Luftwaffe" starting with the He-177.


All three of those aircraft had fairly long and successful operational
histories, and the program on the A-26 was interesting to watch, as it's
not that well known, and they did cover the A-20 Havoc in the same
episode.

Yeah, I liked that too. You don't see the Havoc on TV all that often.


You don't see the Havoc _anywhere_ all that much... I don't know if it
even showed up in war comics, and that's the sure sign that a aircraft
hasn't "made it". Hell, the Blackhawks had their Skyrockets, so even
_that_ got some publicity:
http://hsfeatures.com/features04/skyrockettm_1.htm


I had a Monogram model of a Invader as a kid, and frankly
didn't have a clue as to what is was or where it came from...it sure
didn't look like a Marauder of some sort:
http://www.gasolinealleyantiques.com...-p6invader.JPG

I had that model, but it was in different box art by the time I bought
it in the 70s.


Turrets don't rotate... sign of bad model.
That thing goes way back in Monogram's history, when they first started
making all-plastic kits, rather than wooden ones with plastic detail
parts: http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/k...jacksonb26.htm


Which leaves a good question - why exactly was it later given a "B-26"
designation after it had already been used by the Marauder?

The Air Force put the A-26 back in service after the Widowmaker, um...
I mean Marauder had been retired. By that point, the Air Force had
discontinued the A (Attack) designation, so the Invader went back into
service under the B-26 designation. When the DoD standardized
designations in 1962 or so, "A" was reinstated and the Invader went
back to A-26.

My favorite "Wings" episode was the one where the B-17 was credited
with carrying ten _50 mm_ machine guns, which should have made any
German fighter very hesitant about attacking it.

I wish they'd re-run Wings somewhere, even if its 3:00am ET.

"Wings Of The Luftwaffe" and "Wings Of The Red Star" get rerun quite often.
Something that is missing is a good series on Japanese WW II aircraft.

Pat

Rick Jones wrote:

Drat - missed that one and would have loved to see it - my father flew
an A-20 in Europe.

They are running it right now coincidentally.
It was a under-appreciated aircraft given its versatility... sort of the
American equivalent of the Ju-88.
Ever seen this BTW?:
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/Mo...voc_Stuff.html

Pat

Rick Jones wrote:

Hmm, poking around a bit I see that the P-38 had the same 37mm cannon
as the P-39 (along with some 50 and 30 cal machine guns). The other
"big names" appear to have been machine gun armed.

The P-38 had a 20 mm cannon, not a 37 mm one.
The P-61 "Black Widow" had 4 fixed 20 mm cannons firing forward, and
some carried a extra pair of them in the remote-controlled dorsal turret
instead of the four .50 caliber machine guns.

Pat

Brian Thorn wrote:

True, but look at our *second* jet, coming down the pike not far
behind and really intended to be the first US jet to go into combat.
The Lockheed P-80. The odds would have been even.

It would have been fascinating to see those two mix it up, and see who
would win. The engine on the P-70 was certainly a lot more reliable than
those on the Me-262.
According to Eric Brown in his "Wings Of The Luftwaffe" book, the little
He-162 could fly like a bat out of hell, and might have been a real
problem for a P-70 to run into: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinkel_He_162

Pat