Commander's Decision?

I would like to think that a CDR who called a King's-X to scrub a
launch would be respected instead of cast aside.

The ECO sensors are not like some part that is not really essential. The
ECO sensors are in the main part of the automated controllers and need to
work properly.

We have not seen, in this instance, a case where the control room is hot to
go and the CDR has other ideas. At this point I think the launch director
is not going to give a go order without a good reason, or that the CDR would
disagree with.

That said, I am not sure the ground folks really inderstand the sensor
problem. Maybe they want to think they understand it, but I don't think
they do. I mean, okay, the guys in the back room are said to be real
bright, so if the are realy bright, they should know they are looking at a
design problem and an interface problem, so to fix it they need a new design
or a tweak to the interface card.



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From Revision:
I would like to think that a CDR who called a King's-X to scrub a
launch would be respected instead of cast aside.

The ECO sensors are not like some part that is not really essential. The
ECO sensors are in the main part of the automated controllers and need to
work properly.

We have not seen, in this instance, a case where the control room is hot to
go and the CDR has other ideas. At this point I think the launch director
is not going to give a go order without a good reason, or that the CDR would
disagree with.

On the contrary, ECO sensors are *almost never* used. Let's be clear
that they are part of a *backup* system. I would estimate that there
is a higher probability of a catastrophic problem from some other
malfunction than needing these ECO sensors to trigger.

The biggest threat from this whole issue is the probability of having
faulty sensors send you TAL with a full tank of gas!

That said, I am not sure the ground folks really inderstand the sensor
problem. Maybe they want to think they understand it, but I don't think
they do. I mean, okay, the guys in the back room are said to be real
bright, so if the are realy bright, they should know they are looking at a
design problem and an interface problem, so to fix it they need a new design
or a tweak to the interface card.

I thought they put the smart ones in the *front* room. Ha!


~ CT

On Dec 9, 7:54�pm, wrote:
From Revision:

I would like to think that a CDR who called a King's-X to scrub a
launch would be respected instead of cast aside.

The ECO sensors are not like some part that is not really essential. �The
ECO sensors are in the main part of the automated controllers and need to
work properly.

We have not seen, in this instance, a case where the control room is hot to
go and the CDR has other ideas. �At this point I think the launch director
is not going to give a go order without a good reason, or that the CDR would
disagree with.

On the contrary, ECO sensors are *almost never* used. �Let's be clear
that they are part of a *backup* system. �I would estimate that there
is a higher probability of a catastrophic problem from some other
malfunction than needing these ECO sensors to trigger.

The biggest threat from this whole issue is the probability of having
faulty sensors send you TAL with a full tank of gas!

That said, I am not sure the ground folks really inderstand the sensor
problem. �Maybe they want to think they understand it, but I don't think
they do. �I mean, okay, the guys in the back room are said to be real
bright, so if the are realy bright, they should know they are looking at a
design problem and an interface problem, so to fix it they need a new design
or a tweak to the interface card.

I thought they put the smart ones in the *front* room. �Ha!

~ CT

well a bigger risk, a fuel leak depletes the tank too soon, the faulty
sensors dont know its out of fuel, the turbo pumps run dry and the
stack detonates......

lost vehicle and crew ends US man in space program possibly for a
generation

From Bob H:
On Dec 9, 7:54�pm, wrote:
snip
On the contrary, ECO sensors are *almost never* used. �Let's be clear
that they are part of a *backup* system. �I would estimate that there
is a higher probability of a catastrophic problem from some other
malfunction than needing these ECO sensors to trigger.

The biggest threat from this whole issue is the probability of having
faulty sensors send you TAL with a full tank of gas!
snip

well a bigger risk, a fuel leak depletes the tank too soon, the faulty
sensors dont know its out of fuel, the turbo pumps run dry and the
stack detonates......

lost vehicle and crew ends US man in space program possibly for a
generation

Saving you from a fuel leak is certainly the scenario that was the
driver for ECO sensors to be installed in the first place, but my
point was that is a much lower *probability* considering that you are
launching with sensors that you already know are iffy. They are doing
more harm than good right now.


~ CT

On Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:41:40 -0800 (PST),
wrote:


Suffice it to say that it is ridiculous to assert that any CDR does
not have the pull to scrub their own launch. And if any crewmember
would like to back out while avoiding the confrontation with anyone
pushing to GO, they can always take the Ferris Bueller way out!

Perhaps what 'behlingjo' meant to say was that a CDR doesn't have the
pull to do that without scrubbing their entire astronaut career along
with the mission.

THAT one I have yet to see anyone press-to-test!


~ CT
I don't think any crew member would call a scrub on launch day. But I
was intrigued by this "proposal" from the Crew office. Heretofore I
have never heard of a proposal from the Crew office to be considered
by the MMT. I just smelled to me that perhaps the crew, one or all,
were weighing in on the matter, diplomatically stating we really would
rather not launch unless we have higher confidence in these ECO
sensors, and I would see that as a chain of command style of getting a
message to the MMT. I agree that if anyone went in stomping their feet
and holding their breath that would probably be their last visit to
the crew office.
I do believe however, that post Challenger and Columbia, that the CDR
and maybe even the PLT might have a better chance of being listened to
by the MMT.
Regards,
Jim in Houston.

Contrary to popular opinion RN does not mean Real Nerd!
Teddy Roosevelt's mother said: "Fill what is empty,
empty what is full, and scratch where it itches"

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