Genesis-Wildfire

Bill Bonde ( ``Soli Deo Gloria'' ) wrote:
If panspermia is right, then explain about all those spermia floating
down on the Earth each day by the ton. Why haven't they infected us?

An easy enough problem with an obvious solution.
Conveniently, the same exact solution to the evolutionary
origin theory as well. In both cases the organisms or
pre-organism complexes in question are very much less
suited to compete in the Earth environment. They are
outcompeted and outmatched (and perhaps eaten) by
current Earth life. In an Earth devoid of life they can
life and thrive, but not otherwise.

The case for this is much, much stronger for evolutionary
origin vs. panspermia though.

Here, "Bill Bonde ( ``Soli Deo Gloria'' )" wrote:


Well, there *are* theories of dormant life surviving space. And Genesis
*was* quite long exposing it's collectors *and* brought them back without
exposing them to the heat of reentry...

If panspermia is right, then explain about all those spermia floating
down on the Earth each day by the ton. Why haven't they infected us?

If panspermia is right, what floats down to Earth (I don't know what
rate the proposed theories give) is very simple. Our Earth life, which
has the advantage of gigayears of evolution in a dense liquid
high-speed biosphere, eats the newcomers like candy.

(Regardless of whether they drift down or are carried down on a
man-made probe.)

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.

Andrew Plotkin wrote:

Here, "Bill Bonde ( ``Soli Deo Gloria'' )" wrote:


Well, there *are* theories of dormant life surviving space. And Genesis
*was* quite long exposing it's collectors *and* brought them back without
exposing them to the heat of reentry...

If panspermia is right, then explain about all those spermia floating
down on the Earth each day by the ton. Why haven't they infected us?

If panspermia is right, what floats down to Earth (I don't know what
rate the proposed theories give) is very simple. Our Earth life, which
has the advantage of gigayears of evolution in a dense liquid
high-speed biosphere, eats the newcomers like candy.

Didn't those weirdo bugs on the Mir space station seem capable of eating
the ship itself? That sounds like a powerful evolutionary trait in a
world of steel and glass.



(Regardless of whether they drift down or are carried down on a
man-made probe.)

That's an argument for not letting it worry you. If the materials are so
all over out there that they are on the Genesis probe, then they are
falling to earth all the time and we don't have anything out of the
ordinary to worry about.


--
"The rabbits became strange in many ways, different from other rabbits.
They knew well enough what was happening. But even to themselves they
pretended that all was well, for the food was good, they were protected,
they had nothing to fear but the one fear; and that struck here and
there, never enough at a time to drive them away. They forgot the ways
of wild rabbits. They forgot El-ahrairah, for what use had they for
tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?"
-+ Richard Adams, "Watership Down"

Gallery Neolithica wrote:

Imagine if this payload contained a viable pathogen from Mars. Would we have
had to nuke the valley in a cheap remake of The Andromeda Strain? Dugway's
containments are useless if the capsule ruptures BEFORE getting there. As a
helicopter pilot I can tell you that entire scenario is UNSAFE for
biopotential sample returns.


the whole point in adnromeda strain was that nuking the valley
would have been exactly the wrong thing to do. You can't develop
set solutions for unkown problems - because they are liable to
backfire.


If you relly need to return something you had better start with
a capsule that would survive the ground hit intact after completely
passive deacceleration.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Henry Spencer wrote:
Probably the best choice of location, assuming full freedom to pick
a site, would be dense coniferous forest.

Wouldn't there be a high risk that nobody would ever find the probe?

Perhaps it would land right on top of B.D. Cooper's millions.
--
Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Henry Spencer wrote:
Probably the best choice of location, assuming full freedom to pick
a site, would be dense coniferous forest.

Wouldn't there be a high risk that nobody would ever find the probe?

Perhaps it would land right on top of B.D. Cooper's millions.

A rather simple and compact and near-unperisable transmitter can
avoid that. Never mind that aerial surveilance of teh landing site
would give you a very good initial location.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

If the exact state of Genesis' re-entry systems had been known a year
or
so in advance, it would I suppose have been possible to make it
re-enter
at a choice of location (and angle).

Where, then, should it have been sent?

You could probably do the same type of recovery, but using different
stunt pilots. 310 kph was the terminal velocity without a parachute -
this speed can be easily reached by planes, and by skydivers in
streamlined positions. So pull along side with a plane at about 5000
meters, and send out 4 skydivers with a net attached to a rope. The
skydivers dive beneath the capsule, spead the net, and let the capsule
fall into it. Then their job is done; they track away and land
separately. The plane pulls out of the dive with the capsule in a net.
Then it slows down and reels the capsule into the cargo bay.

Obviously the navigation and timing are tricky, and you only get one
chance; there is only about 1 minute between 5000 meters and impact.
Everything after rendezvous you can practice all you want, so the
rendezvous itself might be hardest part. You'd need planes that are
significantly faster than the capsule, but have openable cargo doors,
exits for parachutists, and so on. A jet fighter, for example, could
rendezvous but do nothing to stop the capsule; a parachuting plane such
as a Twin Otter can open its doors, hold the skydivers, and return the
capsule, but is barely faster than the capsule and probably could not
rendezvous. Maybe one of the military cargo planes if they are
maneuverable enough?

Lou Scheffer

"Keith F. Lynch" wrote:

Henry Spencer wrote:
Probably the best choice of location, assuming full freedom to pick
a site, would be dense coniferous forest.

Wouldn't there be a high risk that nobody would ever find the probe?

Perhaps it would land right on top of B.D. Cooper's millions.

Unlike Mr Cooper, the probe can be tracked by aircraft down to impact,
thus lessening the search radius.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:
snip
This has been considered before.

For one thing, consider lifeforms on earth. Very few infectious agents are
effective outside of their host species. Rabies, the flu and leprosy are
three of the few that come to mind and leprosy isn't lethal (I think) in
armidillos.

And they all have DNA or RNA in common. So far we haven't seen any
lifeforms that don't contain DNA or RNA. So now the big question is... is
RNA/DNA unique to Earth or not? If so, it's doubtful that any other
lifeforms could infect us. If not, then it's more likely. However, as
they've been evolved in the absence of human hosts, it's again unlikely that
they can successfully be infectious to humans.

Exactly the same argument could be made as to why nothing can infect
culture mediums.
They have no DNA/RNA, and are just jelly with some sugars and stuff.

The worst case is that we get hit by something so alien that all the
immune responses are simply irrelevant, as it does not have cells based
on the same compounds, and are just bags of impure water with handy trace
elements.

Ian Stirling wrote:
"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote:
snip
This has been considered before.

For one thing, consider lifeforms on earth. Very few infectious agents are
effective outside of their host species. Rabies, the flu and leprosy are
three of the few that come to mind and leprosy isn't lethal (I think) in
armidillos.

And they all have DNA or RNA in common. So far we haven't seen any
lifeforms that don't contain DNA or RNA. So now the big question is... is
RNA/DNA unique to Earth or not? If so, it's doubtful that any other
lifeforms could infect us. If not, then it's more likely. However, as
they've been evolved in the absence of human hosts, it's again unlikely that
they can successfully be infectious to humans.

Exactly the same argument could be made as to why nothing can infect
culture mediums.
They have no DNA/RNA, and are just jelly with some sugars and stuff.

Like say 'flesh eating bacteria' (with flesh being live human flesh).


The worst case is that we get hit by something so alien that all the
immune responses are simply irrelevant, as it does not have cells based
on the same compounds, and are just bags of impure water with handy trace
elements.

Immune responses can be relevant at least n principle to nearly anything
as nearly anything can be either shredded or accumulated for disposal by it.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++