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#21
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
In article ,
"Danny Dot" wrote: As a retired engineer, I don't see how nuclear explosions could be used for launches. The blast would tend to distroy the vehicle and anyone inside of the vehicle. After the Trinity test at Alamagordo (and some above-ground test later on) parts of the tower structure that held the device remained. And some shielded test gear within about 100yds of the device also survived the blast. On orbit, a nuclear explosion may not even provide a impulse via blast. Without an atmosphere, I don't think there would be an impulse of force. Huge amount of heat in the form of radiation, but no blast overpressure. Which is OK, since the atmosphere isn't needed to produce the thrust. The thrusters would have been surrounded with a jacket of water or wax (for example), and the plasma produced provides the thrust. Not hugely efficient, maybe, with plasma being wasted on each pop; but who cares when the total energy being produced is so much over the top of your requirements, not to mention any chemical alternatives. Google around for "Orion nuclear rocket". Lots of stuff, including proof-of-concept tests. But a nuclear reactor with hydrogen of even water being boiled and heated then expelled out a nozzle would make a good rocket engine. Easy (relatively). The NERVA test engine was running in the 1960s. Northwind is a more recent notion. Politics stopped their use; until you can convince the Greenies that it would be safe enough to put the (cold) engine in orbit before fueling and lighting it off, we won't see any. |
#22
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
Steve Hix wrote:
In article , "Danny Dot" wrote: On orbit, a nuclear explosion may not even provide a impulse via blast. Without an atmosphere, I don't think there would be an impulse of force. Huge amount of heat in the form of radiation, but no blast overpressure. Which is OK, since the atmosphere isn't needed to produce the thrust. The thrusters would have been surrounded with a jacket of water or wax (for example), and the plasma produced provides the thrust. Well you could certainly embellish the pusher plate with coatings of this kind to improve overall efficiency, but anything that reflects will work. "Huge amount of heat in the form of radiation", is the key phrase here. The light pressure from the emitted radiation alone is enough. Remember those photo sensitive vanes in a evacuated bulb you may have seen in junior high? Now scale it up. The trick is too keep the pusher plate cool enough to maintain its reflectivity. The physics is no different than solar sailing or using a ground or space-based laser to propel a spacecraft. Except the light energy is coming from your own supplied bombs. Not hugely efficient, maybe, with plasma being wasted on each pop; but who cares when the total energy being produced is so much over the top of your requirements, not to mention any chemical alternatives. I image only a fraction of the energy released by the bomb is actually providing propulsion. IIRC you need some kind of super shock absorber that resonates with the explosive pulses connecting the plate to the spacecraft if you want to provide a comfortable experience for the occupants. Also IIRC the bomb detonates at a goodly distance (many, many, many miles) from the spacecraft. Google around for "Orion nuclear rocket". Lots of stuff, including proof-of-concept tests. But a nuclear reactor with hydrogen of even water being boiled and heated then expelled out a nozzle would make a good rocket engine. Easy (relatively). The NERVA test engine was running in the 1960s. Northwind is a more recent notion. Politics stopped their use; until you can convince the Greenies that it would be safe enough to put the (cold) engine in orbit before fueling and lighting it off, we won't see any. Putting the cold engines in orbit doesn't present a problem. It's putting up the fuel. Since the days of Three Mile Island the words nuclear and irrational have become synonymous in the English language. Dave |
#23
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
In message , Danny Dot
writes As a retired engineer, I don't see how nuclear explosions could be used for launches. The blast would tend to distroy the vehicle and anyone inside of the vehicle. On orbit, a nuclear explosion may not even provide a impulse via blast. Without an atmosphere, I don't think there would be an impulse of force. Huge amount of heat in the form of radiation, but no blast overpressure. Possibly, but it's my understanding - backed up by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29, for instance - that the blast wouldn't even seriously damage the pusher plate, and the acceleration on a crewed craft would be only a few G. And you can always add reaction mass to the bombs. |
#24
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
Jonathan Silverlight wrote:
Possibly, but it's my understanding - backed up by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29, for instance - that the blast wouldn't even seriously damage the pusher plate, and the acceleration on a crewed craft would be only a few G. And you can always add reaction mass to the bombs. OK. My memory is faulty. Plasma Wave. Detonation at 60 meters from the Pusher Plate. Dave |
#25
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
Danny Dot wrote:
http://spacebombardment.blogspot.com...-re-lunar.html As a retired engineer, I don't see how nuclear explosions could be used for launches. Here's a simplified view of one of the key engineering drawings. http://spacebombardment.blogspot.com...-23-of-ga.html |
#26
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
Herb Schaltegger wrote:
(snipped) http://www.angryherb.net He was born in Big Beaver by the borderline He started playing hockey by the time he was nine His dad took the hose and froze the back yard And Little Herb dreamed he was Rocket Richard He grew up big and he grew up tough He saw himself scoring for the Wings or Canucks But he wasn't that good with a slide rule Herb's real talent was beating people up His heart wasn't in it but the crowd ate it up Through pee-wee's and juniors, midgets and mites He must have racked up more than six hundred fights A scout from the flames came down from Saskatoon Said, "There's always room on our team for a goon Son, we've always got room for a goon" There were Swedes to the left of him Russians to the right A Czech at the blue line looking for a fight Brains over brawn-that might work for you But what's a Canadian lawyer boy to do What else can a lawyer boy from Canada to do But what's a Canadian lawyer boy to do What else can a lawyer boy from Canada to do Hit somebody! was what the crowd roared When Herb the goon came over the boards "Coach," he'd say, "I wanna score goals" The coach said, "Buddy, remember your role The fast guys get paid, they shoot, they score Protect them, Buddy, that's what you're here for Protection is what you're here for Protection-it's the stars that score Protection-kick somebody's ass Protection-don't put the biscuit in the basket just Hit some, Buddy! it rang in his ears Blood on the ice ran down through the years The king of the goons with a box for a throne A thousand stitches and broken bones He never lost a fight on his icy patrol But deep inside, Herb only dreamed of a goal He just wanted one damn goal There were Swedes at the the blue line Finns at the red A Russian with a stick heading straight for his head Brains over brawn-that might work for you But what's a Canadian lawyer boy to do What else can a lawyer boy from Canada to do But what's a Canadian lawyer boy to do What else can a lawyer boy from Canada to do In his final season, on his final night Herb and a Finn goon were pegged for a fight Thirty seconds left, the puck took a roll And suddenly Herb had a shot on goal The goalie committed, Herb picked his spot Twenty years of waiting went into that shot The fans jumped up, the Finn jumped too And coldcocked Herb on his follow through The big man crumbled but he felt all right 'Cause the last thing he saw was the flashing red light He saw that heavenly light There were Swedes to the left of him Russians to the right A Czech at the blue line looking for a fight Take care of your teeth-that might work for you But what's a Canadian lawyer boy to do What else can a lawyer boy from Canada to do But what's a Canadian lawyer boy to do What else can a lawyer boy from Canada to do |
#27
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
Robert Kolker wrote:
bombardmentforce wrote: The doesn't do much for a growing population, and is no way for us to get rich.. True. Recycling buys some time but the moment of truth comes. Either the population stops growing or we mine metal from the oceans. The oceans are lousy ore. We do not have to go to the asteroid belt. There is also substitution of non-metalic substances for metal. Right now we are getting very strong material using carbon fibres. Lots of carbon, yes? I think the soundest approach is population limitation. That way, if our space efforts Our current space efforts are scheduled to produce _nothing_ profitable and tangible. fail to produce what is needed, we can still survive a long time on this planet. The dinosaurs had no asteroid survival plans, our only plan is to plan to plan on warning. Any time we get is a gift from an overidulgent creator who blessed our more fit ancestors with "Be friutful and multiply." |
#28
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
In article SwVUg.29045$gF3.15129@trnddc02,
David Spain wrote: Steve Hix wrote: In article , "Danny Dot" wrote: On orbit, a nuclear explosion may not even provide a impulse via blast. Without an atmosphere, I don't think there would be an impulse of force. Huge amount of heat in the form of radiation, but no blast overpressure. Which is OK, since the atmosphere isn't needed to produce the thrust. The thrusters would have been surrounded with a jacket of water or wax (for example), and the plasma produced provides the thrust. Well you could certainly embellish the pusher plate with coatings of this kind to improve overall efficiency, but anything that reflects will work. "Huge amount of heat in the form of radiation", is the key phrase here. The light pressure from the emitted radiation alone is enough. Remember those photo sensitive vanes in a evacuated bulb you may have seen in junior high? Now scale it up. The trick is too keep the pusher plate cool enough to maintain its reflectivity. The physics is no different than solar sailing or using a ground or space-based laser to propel a spacecraft. Except the light energy is coming from your own supplied bombs. Not hugely efficient, maybe, with plasma being wasted on each pop; but who cares when the total energy being produced is so much over the top of your requirements, not to mention any chemical alternatives. I image only a fraction of the energy released by the bomb is actually providing propulsion. IIRC you need some kind of super shock absorber that resonates with the explosive pulses connecting the plate to the spacecraft if you want to provide a comfortable experience for the occupants. Also IIRC the bomb detonates at a goodly distance (many, many, many miles) from the spacecraft. Google around for "Orion nuclear rocket". Lots of stuff, including proof-of-concept tests. But a nuclear reactor with hydrogen of even water being boiled and heated then expelled out a nozzle would make a good rocket engine. Easy (relatively). The NERVA test engine was running in the 1960s. Northwind is a more recent notion. Politics stopped their use; until you can convince the Greenies that it would be safe enough to put the (cold) engine in orbit before fueling and lighting it off, we won't see any. Putting the cold engines in orbit doesn't present a problem. It's putting up the fuel. Which is what I said; you don't go hot (critical) until after you're in orbit. But they even freak out about small radio-thermal power sources. Since the days of Three Mile Island the words nuclear and irrational have become synonymous in the English language. Although it has been interesting, over the past few months, to hear some long-time green types beginning to argue that nukes might not be so bad after all. |
#29
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
In article om,
"bombardmentforce" wrote: Herb Schaltegger wrote: (snipped) http://www.angryherb.net He was born in Big Beaver by the borderline He started playing hockey by the time he was nine His dad took the hose and froze the back yard [snip] Oooooooooookay then. *plonk* |
#30
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nuclear space engine - would it work ??
"Robert Kolker" wrote in message . .. I think the soundest approach is population limitation. You first. |
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