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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
I'd not known (not that I'd been looking...) that the Polaris was four
solids operating in parallel, but that is how it appears in several of those shots in the video. rick jones -- oxymoron n, Hummer H2 with California Save Our Coasts and Oceans plates these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
#22
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Derek Lyons wrote:
I'm still laughing over some of those Polaris failures on the YouTube video I found - particularly the one where the missile gets launched, the motor doesn't ignite, it falls back into the water, there's a big commotion under the water, and then the second stage comes flying out of the water at around a 45 degree angle with its engine firing. I suspect the range safety system may be the cause of the 'commotion'... It's interesting however just how much the 2nd stage displayed a tendency towards independent flight. Yeah, it does go wild on occasion, but it seems to at least ignite without exploding. I was wondering if that was due to flame from the exploding first stage going up its nozzles and igniting the second stage fuel, or if ignition is activated by the first stage separating, and it thinks it's undergoing a normal staging event. Did you see that video BTW? One of the last launches is a Polaris A-3 that comes out of the tube only to have the entire second stage and warhead assembly immediately detach as it leaves the tube. That time the second stage doesn't ignite, and just topples into the sea. Pat |
#23
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Rick Jones wrote:
I'd not known (not that I'd been looking...) that the Polaris was four solids operating in parallel, but that is how it appears in several of those shots in the video. Four nozzles on a single engine grain (Minuteman uses the same four nozzle arrangement on its first stage): http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...-a-cutaway.jpg Three different systems of steering were used on the Polaris series of missiles: jetavators, rotating nozzles, and fluid injection. They are described he http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/slbm/a-2.htm http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/slbm/a-3.htm Pat |
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Pat Flannery wrote:
Rick Jones wrote: I'd not known (not that I'd been looking...) that the Polaris was four solids operating in parallel, but that is how it appears in several of those shots in the video. Four nozzles on a single engine grain (Minuteman uses the same four nozzle arrangement on its first stage): http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace...-a-cutaway.jpg My recollection of viewing the youtube video was seeing four distinct glowing circles on both ends of the first stage when it was tumbling around doing its Roman Candle thing, which is what led me to believe it was four parallel solids. Like say the sequence starting at ~02:15 if I'm still watching the same footage. Am I just seeing the nozzle end each time when I see the four glowing circles? rick jones I like how the film was reversed at ~05:15 with the speed limit sign reading backwards -- I don't interest myself in "why." I think more often in terms of "when," sometimes "where;" always "how much." - Joubert these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Rick Jones wrote:-polaris-a-cutaway.jpg
My recollection of viewing the youtube video was seeing four distinct glowing circles on both ends of the first stage when it was tumbling around doing its Roman Candle thing, which is what led me to believe it was four parallel solids. Like say the sequence starting at ~02:15 if I'm still watching the same footage. Am I just seeing the nozzle end each time when I see the four glowing circles? I just rewatched it, and it looks like the four spots were on the same end all the way through. There is a point where the flame coming out of the top looks irregular in shape, but that could be either due to the star-shaped central bore of the engine grain, or remnants of the top dome of the engine after it ruptured. It looks like it started leaking and then failed almost immediately after launch, as the black smoke that engulfs the lower part of the stage just before the explosion seems to come from the area at the top of the first stage. Note that as it tumbles a lot more fire comes out of one end than the other, and the end with the four nozzles is the one with the least fire coming out of it, as the whole top dome has pretty much disintegrated, leaving the top of the stage pretty much a open pipe. That's even more noticeable on the failure that starts a 3:50. I like how the film was reversed at ~05:15 with the speed limit sign reading backwards Hadn't caught that, but it is indeed. :-) Pat |
#26
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Pat Flannery wrote:
Rick Jones wrote:-polaris-a-cutaway.jpg My recollection of viewing the youtube video was seeing four distinct glowing circles on both ends of the first stage when it was tumbling around doing its Roman Candle thing, which is what led me to believe it was four parallel solids. Like say the sequence starting at ~02:15 if I'm still watching the same footage. Am I just seeing the nozzle end each time when I see the four glowing circles? I just rewatched it, and it looks like the four spots were on the same end all the way through. There is a point where the flame coming out of the top looks irregular in shape, but that could be either due to the star-shaped central bore of the engine grain, or remnants of the top dome of the engine after it ruptured. What then "routes" the exhaust from the "one big chunk" of propellant to the four separate nozzles? I'd have thought that was a rather difficult thing to construct such that it didn't melt. The nozzles can radiate and/or ablate, but that "plumbing" wouldn't have those options would it? rick jones -- oxymoron n, commuter in a gas-guzzling luxury SUV with an American flag these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
#27
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
In sci.space.history message ,
Mon, 14 Sep 2009 03:18:12, Derek Lyons posted: Dr J R Stockton wrote: For a solid, assuming that the case bursts, rather than the propellant actually detonating, the initial bang may be no more than a warship should be designed to accept from enemy munitions. You have utterly no fecking clue what you are talking about - that 'initial bang' [that a warship is capable of enduring] is equivalent of a solid motor roughly big enough to toss a potato the length of a football pitch... I.E. insignificiant. Evidently you have only served in shoddy ships. The HMS Vanguard which I have been on was much more solidly built. So was the paddle steamer to the Isle of Wight (or Swanage). I did write, and you did quote, "should". A motor which can toss a murphy (typically 0.15 kg) 100 metres will be able to impart to it less energy than the murphy will have on falling from about 35 metres. That's substantially less energy than is involved in a portly CPO tripping over a bollard and falling flat on his face on the deck - or by a particularly large hailstone. AISB : when does the following take effect? : Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL -- (c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. Turnpike v6.05 MIME. Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links. Proper = 4-line sig. separator as above, a line exactly "-- " (SonOfRFC1036) Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with "" or " " (SonOfRFC1036) |
#28
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Rick Jones wrote:
What then "routes" the exhaust from the "one big chunk" of propellant to the four separate nozzles? I'd have thought that was a rather difficult thing to construct such that it didn't melt. The nozzles can radiate and/or ablate, but that "plumbing" wouldn't have those options would it? The four nozzles are attached to the domed bottom of the propellant casing, and there's a gap between them and the flat bottom of the propellant grain, so the gas exits them all equally from that plenum area. Both the Mercury and Apollo LES motors used a similar single-grain-multiple-nozzle arrangement. Pat |
#29
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Pat Flannery wrote:
The four nozzles are attached to the domed bottom of the propellant casing, and there's a gap between them and the flat bottom of the propellant grain, so the gas exits them all equally from that plenum area. Both the Mercury and Apollo LES motors used a similar single-grain-multiple-nozzle arrangement. Fair enough - what then should I make of this: http://www.vectorsite.net/Ywpol_1m.jpg http://www.vectorsite.net/Ywpol_1b.jpg (sorry for the length) which is captioned at: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...a%3DN%26um%3D1 As "Polaris first stage solid rocket motor, ATK rocket park, Utah / 2008" ? rick (got there googling for "polaris first stage motor") -- Wisdom Teeth are impacted, people are affected by the effects of events. these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway... feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH... |
#30
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US captured V-1 missile tests 1949 - 1951
Rick Jones wrote:
I'd not known (not that I'd been looking...) that the Polaris was four solids operating in parallel, but that is how it appears in several of those shots in the video. It doesn't have four solids operating in parallel - it has a single solid with four nozzles. D. -- Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh. http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/ -Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings. Oct 5th, 2004 JDL |
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