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The round and rotating Earth



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 28th 10, 04:13 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Default The round and rotating Earth

The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours or rotates through its
equatorial circumference at a rate of 15 degrees/1037.5 miles per hour
and an entire 24,901 mile circumference in 24 hours,it is the simple
facts of the dimensions and rotational characteristics of our planet
and if we care enough about this planet then people must begin to
accept these facts.

The minor problem of empiricists not comprehending their own system
pales in comparison to the situation where it is now even a struggle
to confirm that the Earth is round and rotating using cause and effect
and with all the values attached so surely somebody else has a sense
that a descent to such an intellectual standard is the worst possible
scenario regardless of who is offended.It is not so much an
astronomical problem as a struggle to set a standard of intelligence
at the lowest possible rung and having expressed dismay that there is
no sense of a fight,excitement or some indication that there actually
is a crisis that goes way become the topic itself ,I refuse to believe
that people would knowingly accept an embarrassing error rather than
deal with it regardless of what position they took previously.

It is though people are asleep or just can't get their heads around
the loss of basic planetary facts and much of it is centered within a
short period of time in the late 17th century.Rather than jump to the
defense of Isaac,empiricists are asked to consider the actual meaning
of absolute/relative time as it applies to Flamsteed's conclusion for
daily rotation using circumpolar motion (fixed stars) by losing not
just cause and effect but also rotational and orbital planetary
dynamics which was always contained in rotation to natural noon and
the natural inequality.

"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the
equation or correlation of the vulgar time. For the natural days are
truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used
for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their
more accurate deducing of the celestial motions. It may be, that there
is no such thing as an equable motion, whereby time may be accurately
measured." Isaac Newton

Don't try to make sense of that statement beyond the references which
distinguish the natural noon cycle from the average 24 hour cycle
insofar as there is no external reference for daily rotation as an
independent motion,the average 24 hour day transfers to daily rotation
as a constant and reaching to fix daily rotation directly with
circumpolar motion is just pure and crude vandalism.

Is there not one individual,just one,who firmly respects the
consequences of losing information on planetary dynamics and the
terrestrial effects experienced by everyone of our race ?.This is not
a game,it is not anything other than a struggle for intelligence at a
level even I don't want to consider for behind the monstrous no center/
no circumference ideologies of big bang/black hole is a type of
mentality that no race of people should ever,ever acclaim.
  #2  
Old April 28th 10, 05:21 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default The round and rotating Earth

On Apr 28, 8:13*am, oriel36 wrote:

Is there not one individual,just one,who firmly respects the
consequences of losing information on planetary dynamics and the
terrestrial effects experienced by everyone of our race ?


Probably not. You are in a class by yourself here, because everyone
else actually understands frames of reference.

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go
away."
- Phillip K. Dick

\Paul A
  #3  
Old April 28th 10, 09:52 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default The round and rotating Earth

On Apr 28, 9:13*am, oriel36 wrote:
I refuse to believe
that people would knowingly accept an embarrassing error rather than
deal with it regardless of what position they took previously.


Yes, people won't knowingly attempt to maintain a position that can be
clearly seen as untrue, even if the alternative is admitting a
previous error. There is no point; no one would be fooled by this.

There are exceptions; dictators who need to maintain their image of
infallibility to maintain their hold on power, for example.

You yourself acknowledge that the natural noon cycle is unequal, while
the return of a star bypasses that inequality. This is why we deem the
rotation of the Earth to have the period of the return of a star.
Doing so doesn't prevent us from determining longitude with a clock.

I'm sorry if that seems silly to you, but we will not knowingly adopt
an error because it seems right to you, however earnest your rhetoric.

John Savard
  #4  
Old April 28th 10, 10:32 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 208
Default The round and rotating Earth

On Apr 28, 8:13 am, oriel36 wrote:


Don't try to make sense of that statement beyond the references which
distinguish the natural noon cycle from the average 24 hour cycle
insofar as there is no external reference for daily rotation as an
independent motion,the average 24 hour day transfers to daily rotation
as a constant and reaching to fix daily rotation directly with
circumpolar motion is just pure and crude vandalism.


Hi
There is an independent reference as I and another stated.
One can go into a closed closet ( completely blocked from sun
or stars ) and using a gyroscope ( of sufficient quality ) and prove
that
the Earth rotates in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds.
It has been done and is required to be true to keep airplanes from
being lost on long flights.
Please answer the questions:
1. How do you justify the difference?
2. How are these measurements incorrect when they are not influenced
by the stars?
3. Is there some type of supernatural force inside closets?

The answers should have nothing to do with Nazis or Christianity. How
is it
that the gyroscope, that knows nothing of your 24 Hour or even what
Sidereal
time is, always give the consistent result?

Please answer the questions so that one might learn where one's
error in thinking is.
Dwight
  #5  
Old April 28th 10, 10:55 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
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Posts: 8,478
Default The round and rotating Earth

On Apr 28, 10:32*pm, "
wrote:
On Apr 28, 8:13 am, oriel36 wrote:



Don't try to make sense of that statement beyond the references which
distinguish the natural noon cycle from the average 24 hour *cycle
insofar as there is no external reference for daily rotation as an
independent motion,the average 24 hour day transfers to daily rotation
as a constant and reaching to fix daily rotation directly with
circumpolar motion is just pure and crude vandalism.


Hi
*There is an independent reference as I and another stated.
One can go into a closed closet ( completely blocked from sun
or stars ) and using a gyroscope ( of sufficient quality ) and prove
that
the Earth rotates in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds.
*It has been done and is required to be true to keep airplanes from
being lost on long flights.
*Please answer the questions:
1. How do you justify the difference?
2. How are these measurements incorrect when they are not influenced
by the stars?
3. Is there some type of supernatural force inside closets?

The answers should have nothing to do with Nazis or Christianity. How
is it
that the gyroscope, that knows nothing of your 24 Hour or even what
Sidereal
time is, always give the consistent result?


Obviously the words of the inventor of the first accurate watch made
no impression on you for once you comprehend how the average 24 hour
day meshes with planetary geometry,you are not likely to ask about
'sidereal time' and rotation through 360 degrees.I have explained many
time why circumpolar motion of the stars is a wonderful convenience by
virtue that the return of a star is based on the equable 24 hour day
within the equable 365/366 calendar system making it useless for
describing planetary dynamics but I guess closet astronomers have
difficulty with that explanation.I would like to know what crosses you
mind when you see Harrison or Huygens explain the principles but then
again,these delicate things suffer badly when rude people handle
them,just as the delicate reasoning for planetary dynamics wither in
the hands of those who have no respect for human achievement and the
work involved.

" The application of a Timekeeper to this discovery is founded upon
the following principles: the earth's surface is divided into 360
equal parts (by imaginary lines drawn from North to South) which are
called Degrees of Longitude; and its daily revolution Eastward round
its own axis is performed in 24 hours; consequently in that period,
each of those imaginary lines or degrees, becomes successively
opposite to the Sun (which makes the noon or precise middle of the day
at each of those degrees and it must follow, that from the time any
one of those lines passes the Sun, till the next passes, must be just
four minutes, for 24 hours being divided by 360 will give that
quantity; so that for every degree of Longitude we sail Westward, it
will be noon with us four minutes the later, and for every degree
Eastward four minutes the sooner, and so on in proportion for any
greater or less quantity. Now, the exact time of the day at the place
where we are, can be ascertained by well known and easy observations
of the Sun if visible for a few minutes at any time from his being ten
degrees high until within an hour of noon, or from an hour after noon
until he is only 10 degrees high in the afternoon; if therefore, at
any time when such observation is made, a Timekeeper tells us at the
same moment what o'clock it is at the place we sailed from, our
Longitude is clearly discovered." John Harrison

http://books.google.ie/books?id=8roA...emarks&f=false


Please answer the questions so that one might learn where one's
error in thinking is.
Dwight


One indeed !,people here have no intention in recovering the great
advances in timekeeping and structural astronomy so as to move on to
using the power of modern imaging and time lapse footage to modify
explanations and adapt to new observations and information.

I had said in my last response to you there would be one last post and
this will have to do as I consider all matters closed for a while,at
least here in sci.astro.amateur.

  #6  
Old April 28th 10, 11:01 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Posts: 3,068
Default The round and rotating Earth

On Apr 28, 2:55*pm, oriel36 wrote:
I had said in my last response to you there would be one last post and
this will have to do as I consider all matters closed for a while,at
least here in sci.astro.amateur.


So...is that a promise or a threat?

  #7  
Old April 29th 10, 05:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected][_2_]
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Posts: 208
Default The round and rotating Earth

Hi
There is an independent reference as I and another stated.
One can go into a closed closet ( completely blocked from sun
or stars ) and using a gyroscope ( of sufficient quality ) and prove
that
the Earth rotates in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds.
It has been done and is required to be true to keep airplanes from
being lost on long flights.
Please answer the questions:
1. How do you justify the difference?
2. How are these measurements incorrect when they are not influenced
by the stars?
3. Is there some type of supernatural force inside closets?

Please just answer the questions.

Dwight
  #8  
Old April 29th 10, 09:35 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Posts: 7,018
Default The round and rotating Earth

Some say that love makes the world go around.

But in the eleventh century, Copernicus had not yet arrived, and so
they phrased things differently.

Someone, known variously as Princess Ouallada, or Wallada bint al-
Mustakfi, penned these lines in a love letter to one Abu al-Waleed
Ahmad ibn Zaydún:

Expect my visit when the darkness comes,
The night I think is best for hiding all;
If the heavens felt the love I feel for you,
The sun would not shine, nor the moon rise,
Nor the stars travel in their nightly journey.

So the return of a star to the meridian would not happen, and we would
not be having this problem.

John Savard
  #9  
Old April 29th 10, 09:50 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
oriel36[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,478
Default The round and rotating Earth

On Apr 29, 5:20*pm, " wrote:
Hi
*There is an independent reference as I and another stated.
One can go into a closed closet ( completely blocked from sun
or stars ) and using a gyroscope ( of sufficient quality ) and prove
that
the Earth rotates in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds.
*It has been done and is required to be true to keep airplanes from
being lost on long flights.
*Please answer the questions:
1. How do you justify the difference?
2. How are these measurements incorrect when they are not influenced
by the stars?
3. Is there some type of supernatural force inside closets?

Please just answer the questions.

Dwight


Dwight,the questions you pose are the greatest challenge of our era in
the approach to both the celestial and terrestrial arenas and where
they mesh as cause and effect , for the answer to those questions
contain some of the most heartbreaking errors and the most exciting
prospects.The guys manning the world's largest telescopes as they
track the stars and galaxies across the sky should be capable of
giving a short answer without hesitation that the return of a star to
a meridian is determined using the average 24 hour day within the
equable 365/366 day calendar system making it effectively useless for
describing the Earth daily and orbital dynamics.You can assume that a
star will return to a meridian 3 minutes 56 seconds earlier between
February 29 th and March1st in a leap year thereby affirming where
'sidereal time'comes from within the equable day calendar system and
how it is a useful and positive convenience once observers are aware
of its limitations.The people who operate the large telescopes cannot
assume that 'sidereal time' and circumpolar motion proves rotation is
constant,they must now assume that it is the greatest astronomical
mistake ever given its impact

It is not for people to ignore cause and effect of daily rotation or
orbital motion and while the daylight/darkness cycle and latitudinal
twilight variations are by no means the be all and end all of the
proof of a round and rotating Earth,they do provide a platform where
people have no excuse to ignore the 'sidereal time' error,or better
still,take notice of the actual proof for rotation which uses a
maximum equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour/15 degrees and
turning a full equatorial circumference in 24 hours.Empiricists do not
understand their own system,may not even take it seriously,for all the
ideology of absolute/relative time as it stretches from Newton to
Einstein and on to the ridiculous 'no center/no circumference'
ideologies of this era have their roots in the loss of planetary
dimensions and dynamics contained in 'sidereal time' reasoning.

So Dwight,I was right to express affection for your posts as the
questions you ask and your demeanor do credit to you even if you
disagree with me,we all must carry some amount of responsibility for
our past astronomical heritage and to students and future generations
nut this means being responsive rather than reacting or being
defensive all the time yet if you show great disrespect for the words
and work of John Harrison or ignore him as he explains how clocks
measure distance using the rotational characteristics of the planet
then there is not much further I can say and allow you the luxury of
saying whatever you want,a privilege I give to a few others here.





  #10  
Old April 29th 10, 10:56 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected][_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 208
Default The round and rotating Earth

On Apr 29, 1:50 pm, oriel36 wrote:
On Apr 29, 5:20 pm, " wrote:



Hi
There is an independent reference as I and another stated.
One can go into a closed closet ( completely blocked from sun
or stars ) and using a gyroscope ( of sufficient quality ) and prove
that
the Earth rotates in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds.
It has been done and is required to be true to keep airplanes from
being lost on long flights.
Please answer the questions:
1. How do you justify the difference?
2. How are these measurements incorrect when they are not influenced
by the stars?
3. Is there some type of supernatural force inside closets?


Please just answer the questions.


Dwight


Dwight,the questions you pose are the greatest challenge of our era in
the approach to both the celestial and terrestrial arenas and where
they mesh as cause and effect , for the answer to those questions
contain some of the most heartbreaking errors and the most exciting
prospects.The guys manning the world's largest telescopes as they
track the stars and galaxies across the sky should be capable of
giving a short answer without hesitation that the return of a star to
a meridian is determined using the average 24 hour day within the
equable 365/366 day calendar system making it effectively useless for
describing the Earth daily and orbital dynamics.You can assume that a
star will return to a meridian 3 minutes 56 seconds earlier between
February 29 th and March1st in a leap year thereby affirming where
'sidereal time'comes from within the equable day calendar system and
how it is a useful and positive convenience once observers are aware
of its limitations.The people who operate the large telescopes cannot
assume that 'sidereal time' and circumpolar motion proves rotation is
constant,they must now assume that it is the greatest astronomical
mistake ever given its impact


Hi
The Gyroscope know nothing of the stars or the fact that they
seem to follow the Sidereal clock time. All a Gyroscope knows
is that the object under it rotated once when it completed the 360
degrees and returned to the same position relative to the closet,
as proposed in the original experiment.
Had it done so in 24 hours there would be not question. The
fact that it is know to do this in 23 hours 56 minutes and 4.1
seconds,
would indicate that there is something at the basest of levels
about that interval of time.
The fact that it does this independent of any connect to the stars
or telescopes is of profound significance. The fact that it was
through observation of the stars that this time interval was first
stated is not even relevant.
The fact that it exist, independent of anything else is relevant.
The fact that is does correlate to the interval measure from
the stars is not just coincidence. It is a the result of fundimental
rules of how things have to work. This is true regardless of your
personal pleasures or beliefs.
Dwight
 




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