A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Science
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

A very basic question...



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 25th 06, 09:57 PM posted to sci.space.science
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A very basic question...


Hello,

This is my first post here, so forgive me if these questions have been
asked before. (and I'm not a scientist)

Left and right we can read how lots of people speculate that a certain
planet or moon can not have any lifeforms on them because of extreme cold,
heat, or drought.
These assumptions are mostly based on speculations that intelligent
lifeforms or humanoids could not survive such harsh enviroments.

This puzzles me....haven't humans learned to adapt themselves to their
surroundings? Haven't we evolved in such a way that we can deal with the
elements? Haven't other lifeforms on this planet evolved in the same way?

If it were just ordinary humans making these claims I wouldn't think
anything of it, but when scientists start saying stuff like that I feel
anger swell up inside me. Lots of different scientists from lots of
different countries stand behind the same claim.

So what are they basing their claims on?
Why is it they throw humans into the equation whenever a new planet is
discovered?

Even a microscopic, single-celled organism is a lifeform and that is
basically where it all starts. Look at us! We're far from perfect, but
we've come a long way over the years.

Do I believe in life elsewhere? You betcha!
Where do you think we came from?

Life started over after the dinosaurs and we are that life.
It might even be possible that the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was
carrying a microscopic, single-celled organism deep inside it and when the
dust settled, life began once again.
Maybe it was the asteroid after that, or maybe even the one after that.
If so, that microscopic, single-celled organism had to have come from
somewhere inside the universe. Maybe it even came from a universe outside
our own. Who knows for sure?

But until we get actual proof of that, it's my belief that scientists
around the globe should stop saying that life outside planet Earth is not
possible due to factors that we humble humans could not possibly endure.


Regards,
Marcel
  #2  
Old January 27th 06, 12:58 PM posted to sci.space.science
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A very basic question...

A very basic answer from another non scientist.

Firstly, I'm not sure you are right that people are using humans as the
criteria for whether life can exist.

At the moment the jury is still out on how life started in the first place.
Was there a head start by means of organic molecules from space? Was it
seeded from somewhere else or was there indeed divine intervention!

I think from what I've read, the genetic records suggest that some life
survived the cataclysms of Asteroid or comet impacts to some extent, and
there is no' second start', although,as you say, you would need to excavate
a lot of rock to be sure.

I think the hypothesis is that conditions were right enough to start with,
for long enough to get evolution going well enough for some to survive. The
problem with the places we are seeing out there in space is that we do not
fully understand their histories. In most cases we have never been there and
no samples in pristine condition exist here. Mars meteorites are of course
debris from impacts and may well have been molten when ejected.

This is what makes Genesis and Stardust so important, as these are
interstellar and old material, as it would have been in the very beginning.

I mean, Europa has been in deep freeze for what appears to be a very long
time, and goodness only knows about Titan.

If anything exists in such stringent radiation and temperature conditions
that lives, would we in fact recognise it as life? Only monitoring the
conditions and trying to understand the natural processes will give any
hint, I imagine.

As for planets orbiting other stars, I think, and this is a personal view,
that in many cases the lives of the stars is too short or variable to allow
what WE know as life, to get going.

Incidentally, some would say that the reason life here on Earth has to have
sex and replicate that way in the main, is purely the need to both develop
to a changing environment, and damage by oxidants and radiation over the
lifespan. Surely the parts of our dna which attempt to repair it are there
for good reasons.

In some benign, unchanging environment, there would not be need for change,
so we might find long lived but poorly developed life elsewhere.

Just some thoughts.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Marcel Kuijper" wrote in message
...

Hello,

This is my first post here, so forgive me if these questions have been
asked before. (and I'm not a scientist)

Left and right we can read how lots of people speculate that a certain
planet or moon can not have any lifeforms on them because of extreme cold,
heat, or drought.
These assumptions are mostly based on speculations that intelligent
lifeforms or humanoids could not survive such harsh enviroments.

This puzzles me....haven't humans learned to adapt themselves to their
surroundings? Haven't we evolved in such a way that we can deal with the
elements? Haven't other lifeforms on this planet evolved in the same way?

If it were just ordinary humans making these claims I wouldn't think
anything of it, but when scientists start saying stuff like that I feel
anger swell up inside me. Lots of different scientists from lots of
different countries stand behind the same claim.

So what are they basing their claims on?
Why is it they throw humans into the equation whenever a new planet is
discovered?

Even a microscopic, single-celled organism is a lifeform and that is
basically where it all starts. Look at us! We're far from perfect, but
we've come a long way over the years.

Do I believe in life elsewhere? You betcha!
Where do you think we came from?

Life started over after the dinosaurs and we are that life.
It might even be possible that the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was
carrying a microscopic, single-celled organism deep inside it and when the
dust settled, life began once again.
Maybe it was the asteroid after that, or maybe even the one after that.
If so, that microscopic, single-celled organism had to have come from
somewhere inside the universe. Maybe it even came from a universe outside
our own. Who knows for sure?

But until we get actual proof of that, it's my belief that scientists
around the globe should stop saying that life outside planet Earth is not
possible due to factors that we humble humans could not possibly endure.


Regards,
Marcel


  #3  
Old January 27th 06, 06:39 PM posted to sci.space.science
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A very basic question...


"Marcel Kuijper" wrote in message
...

Life started over after the dinosaurs and we are that life.
It might even be possible that the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was
carrying a microscopic, single-celled organism deep inside it and when the
dust settled, life began once again.



Um, no. Wrong. Thanks for playing.



  #4  
Old April 18th 06, 04:25 AM posted to sci.space.science
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A very basic question...


"Marcel Kuijper" wrote in message
...

Hello,

This is my first post here, so forgive me if these questions have been
asked before. (and I'm not a scientist)

Left and right we can read how lots of people speculate that a certain
planet or moon can not have any lifeforms on them because of extreme cold,
heat, or drought.
These assumptions are mostly based on speculations that intelligent
lifeforms or humanoids could not survive such harsh enviroments.

This puzzles me....haven't humans learned to adapt themselves to their
surroundings? Haven't we evolved in such a way that we can deal with the
elements? Haven't other lifeforms on this planet evolved in the same way?


Ah, we do it by keeping ourselves warm or cold. But we evolved to the point
where we need to do that.

Pretty much the limiting factor is probably water. Almost all life at some
point appears to rely on liquid water. So that basically limits you to
around 32F-212F. (give or take some for various things that can lower or
elevate those points.)

Now, there's some truly weird live forms that may not need liquid water, but
not sure how they evolved and to what extent they're truly separate from the
water cycle.

Now, I suppose you could find live that relies on completely different
processes, but would we recognize it?



Do I believe in life elsewhere? You betcha!
Where do you think we came from?


Umm, if you're suggesting exogenesis, that simply pushes the question back
to "where did that life evolve from?"


Life started over after the dinosaurs and we are that life.


Eh, it CONTINUED. A number of lifeforms survived that and other mass
extinctions.


It might even be possible that the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was
carrying a microscopic, single-celled organism deep inside it and when the
dust settled, life began once again.
Maybe it was the asteroid after that, or maybe even the one after that.
If so, that microscopic, single-celled organism had to have come from
somewhere inside the universe. Maybe it even came from a universe outside
our own. Who knows for sure?

But until we get actual proof of that, it's my belief that scientists
around the globe should stop saying that life outside planet Earth is not
possible due to factors that we humble humans could not possibly endure.


Well, considering that's not what most of them are saying, I don't think
they're going to listen.



Regards,
Marcel


  #5  
Old May 20th 06, 12:55 AM posted to sci.space.science
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default A very basic question...

There are many ways if it is macroscopic and not airborne.
We probably could recognize life in the clouds of Venus,
if there is some, but it is difficult to explore there.


Uhm... I have to disagree there. Life modifies the environment (see
current geological theories regarding influence of litho bacteria and
formation of ore deposits). I think we would spot the little devils
even if they aren't macro.

Do I believe in life elsewhere? You betcha!
Where do you think we came from?

Umm, if you're suggesting exogenesis, that simply pushes the question back
to "where did that life evolve from?"


There is no difficulty with a scenario which will lead to
life from natural chemicals. We can now duplicate most of
the process. We can create "life" from inert chemicals now,
but it is easier to use products of cells to do it.


No "we" can't create life yet. Just the building blocks (aminoacids).

 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A very basic question about perspective Rick Misc 24 June 26th 04 11:05 PM
Basic astro photography question Chris UK Astronomy 2 March 7th 04 07:03 PM
Basic Optics question Martin Frey UK Astronomy 7 January 10th 04 10:58 AM
hey this is a basic question Mike Henley Astronomy Misc 5 November 1st 03 02:02 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.