Neil DeGrasse Tyson headed down same loony road as Carl Sagan?

Towards the end, Sagan, formerly a productive astrophysicist from Cornell and publicizer of astronomy became a bit of a pariah, wandering around, screeching at anyone who would listen about the impending doom of "nuclear winter." Seems like Tyson might be going the same way, or, he could just be trying to promote another book. "Publish or perish?"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neil-de...essory-to-war/

On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 at 3:44:01 PM UTC+1, RichA wrote:
Towards the end, Sagan, formerly a productive astrophysicist from Cornell and publicizer of astronomy became a bit of a pariah, wandering around, screeching at anyone who would listen about the impending doom of "nuclear winter." Seems like Tyson might be going the same way, or, he could just be trying to promote another book. "Publish or perish?"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neil-de...essory-to-war/

You are among the hapless here who fail to take a sensible overview of these icons as it is not the relationship between astrophysics and the military but normal engineering and the military including the atomic bomb.

RichA wrote in
:

Towards the end, Sagan, formerly a productive astrophysicist
from Cornell and publicizer of astronomy became a bit of a
pariah, wandering around, screeching at anyone who would listen
about the impending doom of "nuclear winter." Seems like Tyson
might be going the same way, or, he could just be trying to
promote another book. "Publish or perish?"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neil-de...litarization-o
f-space-new-book-accessory-to-war/

Tyson's always been a little too full of himself, but I stopped
taking him seriuosly about anything when 20 minutes of his Comos
ripoff was anti-Catholic hate propaganda based on . . . who knows,
but certainly not any historical events.

At this point, I wouldn't take his word for it on what day of the
week it is.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:29:07 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
wrote:

RichA wrote in
:

Towards the end, Sagan, formerly a productive astrophysicist
from Cornell and publicizer of astronomy became a bit of a
pariah, wandering around, screeching at anyone who would listen
about the impending doom of "nuclear winter." Seems like Tyson
might be going the same way, or, he could just be trying to
promote another book. "Publish or perish?"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neil-de...litarization-o
f-space-new-book-accessory-to-war/

Tyson's always been a little too full of himself, but I stopped
taking him seriuosly about anything when 20 minutes of his Comos
ripoff was anti-Catholic hate propaganda based on . . . who knows,
but certainly not any historical events.

At this point, I wouldn't take his word for it on what day of the
week it is.

Ah, you mean that bit where he pointed out how the Catholic Church has
historically resisted scientific progress? Yeah, I can see how the
religiously deluded would find that challenging.

The only question worth answering is one the Pope asked ,even in an oblique way, at least if recent commentaries are correct -

Here lurked the danger of serious misunderstanding. Maffeo Barberini, while he was a Cardinal, had counselled Galileo to treat Copernicanism as a hypothesis, not as a confirmed truth. But ‘hypothesis' meant two very different things. On the one hand, astronomers were assumed to deal only with hypotheses, i.e. accounts of the observed motions of the stars and planets that were not claimed to be true. Astronomical theories were mere instruments for calculation and prediction, a view that is often called ‘instrumentalism'. On the other hand, a hypothesis could also be understood as a theory that was not yet proved but was open to eventual confirmation. This was a ‘realist' position. Galileo thought that Copernicanism was true, and presented it as a hypothesis, i.e. as a provisional idea that was potentially physically true, and he discussed the pros and cons, leaving the issue undecided. This did not correspond to the instrumentalist view of Copernicanism that was held by Maffeo Barberini and others. They thought that Copernicus' system was a purely instrumental device, and Maffeo Barberini was convinced that it could never be proved. This ambiguity pervaded the whole Galileo Affair."

http://www.unav.edu/web/ciencia-razo...galileo-affair

I couldn't care less if people are Catholic or anti-Catholic, the issue still stands as to whether predictive astronomy based on Ptolemy's observations and framework could prove the Earth orbits the Sun -

Kepler ". . . the ancient hypotheses clearly fail to account for certain important matters. For example, they do not comprehend the causes of the numbers, extents and durations of the retrogradations and of their agreeing so well with the position and mean motion of the sun. Copernicus alone gives an explanation to those things that provoke astonishment among other astronomers, thus destroying the source of astonishment, which lies in the ignorance of the causes." 1596, Mysterium Cosmographicum

The definite answer is No.

What clouds the issue even more is that with the emergence of RA/Dec which allowed even more precise detail to the predictive framework (clockwork solar system) at the expense of having the Sun bounce up and down against the background stars.

The empirical 't' party is a sight to behold - a subculture based on reducing Ptolemy's geocentricity to Royal Society homocentricity -

"... our clocks kept so good a correspondence with the Heavens that I
doubt it not but they would prove the revolutions of the Earth to be
isochronical... " Flamsteed to Moore

Rather than withdraw and fix timekeeping, the 't' party guys have created an intellectual atmosphere where nothing makes sense hence the most boring and mediocre atmosphere ever to descend on humanity at the expense of the most vibrant discipline of them all - Astronomy.

Gerald Kelleher wrote in
:

The only question worth answering is

"How can Gerald Kelleher able to walk and breathe at the same time,
given how ****ing stupid he is?

one the Pope asked ,even in
an oblique way, at least if recent commentaries are correct -

Here lurked the danger of serious misunderstanding. Maffeo
Barberini, while he was a Cardinal, had counselled Galileo

Tyson's hate propaganda wasn't about Galileo, it was about Giardano
Bruno, who was, indeed, burned at the stake after being driven out
of every violent, extremists splinter group of Christianity he
could find for being a violent, extremist asshole, then returning
to Catholic terrirory, and continuiong his violent, extremist ways.
His version of heliocentrism wasn't even remotely connected to
Copernicus' work, and wasn't in any way a factor in his execution.

No matter what lies Tyson deliberately fostered.

to
treat Copernicanism as a hypothesis, not as a confirmed truth.

Which is, in fact, what it was at that point. It couldn't be
confirmed until Newton invented calculus. And the ptolemaic tables
produces more accurate predictions of planetary movements that
Galileo's equations did (mostly because Galileo didn't guite get
that orbits were elliptical).

And Galileo's real problem wasn't heliocentrism (which was
published by Copernicus, on his death bed, at the express requrest
of a Cardinal and a Bishop, who felt it was too important to *not*
publish, and with the explicit permission of the Pope, to whom it
was dedicated), his problem was that he, too, was an asshole who
****ed off the wrong people. Heliocentrism had more support from
Church astronomers than secular anyway.

Chris, being a Chris (and therefore profoundly stupid and mentally
deranged) will, of course, lie about all this, but you're even
stupid and more deranged than he is, so you won't understand, and
will reply with yet another mindless, gibbering, incoherent stream
of delusional tripe.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 at 12:07:18 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

Tyson's hate propaganda wasn't about Galileo, it was about Giardano
Bruno,

Who was burned at the stake in direct violation of the Eternal Law of God,
specifically, the section of that Law which was again revealed to humanity in the
First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, although the
principles embodied apply to all humans in all times and places:

Thou shalt make no laws that favor one religious faith over another; and

Thou shalt not suppress the ability of the people to freely debate political
issues.

John Savard

On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 at 12:07:18 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

And Galileo's real problem

his problem was that he, too, was an asshole who
****ed off the wrong people.

No, his problem was that the "wrong people" had the power to threaten him with
torture and place him under house arrest, instead of just suffering their
annoyance either in silence, or with free speech of their own.

Had Italy in his day been under a modern democratic political system with
religious pluralism and legal protections for free speech and individual rights,
his situation could not possibly happen.

So his problem was that the Catholic Church was illegitimately exercising the
power of making law without being a modern democratically-elected government.

John Savard

On Wednesday, September 12, 2018 at 12:07:18 PM UTC-6, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:

Which is, in fact, what it was at that point. It couldn't be
confirmed until Newton invented calculus.

This is an interesting point.

It is true that after Newton, the controversy about heliocentricism versus
geocentricism died.

Basically, as I understand it, it was because Newton came up with this thing
called "gravity", and once it was clear how that explained what Kepler matched
to observations, the fact that the Sun was *bigger and heavier* than the Earth
made it pretty obvious what was revolving around what.

This, of course, goes a long part of the way to explain why Oriel36, who praises
the insights of Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler, but condemns Newton as setting
science off on the wrong foot, seem merely amusing or bizarre to many here.

As even Oriel36 knows, Newton's _Principia_ is complicated and hard to read.
This is because, calculus having been newly invented independently by both him
and Leibnitz, he felt it necessary to translate his insights into how inverse-
square gravitation led to Kepler's Laws into the language of basic geometry and
algebra.

That Newton would invent calculus, and apparently be content with *keeping it to
himself* rather than explaining this wonderful new tool so as to further the
progress of science and technology... is a thing which comes close to motivating
me to criticize him in language no less scathing than what Oriel36 uses, but
that's quite another issue.

Thus, it is Leibnitz we have to thank for living in the modern world that
calculus has made possible. Not those who were so foolish as to think they could
keep the dodecahedron a secret when the icosahedron was visible in public, or
those who followed in the misguided footsteps of the Pythagoreans.

John Savard

Chris L Peterson wrote in
:

On Wed, 12 Sep 2018 09:29:07 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
Kujisalimisha wrote:

RichA wrote in
:

Towards the end, Sagan, formerly a productive astrophysicist
from Cornell and publicizer of astronomy became a bit of a
pariah, wandering around, screeching at anyone who would
listen about the impending doom of "nuclear winter." Seems
like Tyson might be going the same way, or, he could just be
trying to promote another book. "Publish or perish?"

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neil-de...militarization
-o f-space-new-book-accessory-to-war/

Tyson's always been a little too full of himself, but I stopped
taking him seriuosly about anything when 20 minutes of his Comos
ripoff was anti-Catholic hate propaganda based on . . . who
knows, but certainly not any historical events.

At this point, I wouldn't take his word for it on what day of
the week it is.

Ah, you mean that bit where he pointed out how the Catholic
Church has historically resisted scientific progress?

Not a single word of which (that he said) as any historical basis.
Bruno wasn't burned at the stake for saying the earth reovlved
around the sun, he was burned at the stake because he was a violent
asshole who went to considerable trouble to get burned at the
stake.

Yeah, I
can see how the religiously deluded would find that challenging.

I'm about as non-religious as anybody you'll ever meet. There's
plenty to criticize the Catholic Church over, then and now, but
burning Bruno isn't one of them. Tyson lent his name, reputation
and face to hate lies, and if he's half as smart as he claims to
be, he knew it.

You, of course, are named "Chris, and therefore, are mentally
deranged and profoundly stupid, as is required of all people named
Chris.

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.