Paranoid end of Heavens above?

Sayf Connary wrote:

Mark Underwood wrote:

It really is time that the Free world did something about the paranoid
culture of the USA . Europe has suffered greater terror threats and
deeds, American funded IRA to name but one, in the past without this
sort of parotid rubbish.

We are almost at the point I feel where enough is enough !

Blah, blah, blah. Take this political BS somewhere else.

But you can't deny that the Americans have become completely paranoid
post 9/11. One minor improvement for the UK is that now the IRA have to
rob banks to get money instead of sponging off gullible Americans.

Any agency capable of deploying effective anti satellite measures will
be perfectly well able to track and acquire their target(s) with or
without a published ephemeris. Withholding this information just
inconveniences amateur space enthusiasts.

It wasn't so long ago that you could by prior arrangement visit BMEWS
Site 3 (RAF Fylingdales) as a group tour and go stand inside the golf
balls (now long gone). If they do still offer organised visits then it
is an interesting day out for an astrosoc. Their ground based images of
satellites are very interesting.

There is an astonishing selection of space junk that they catalogue
ranging from astronauts gloves to explosive bolt parts in low Earth
orbit as well as the more obvious spy birds.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Martin Frey wrote:

We can passively accept such stupid nonsense by keeping silent - but I
really see nowt wrong with saying streuth this has gone far enough
already. Any terrrrist clever enough to make terrrrist use of the
information from sites like Heavens Above is going to be clever enough
not to need Heavens Above to achieve his act or terrrrr.

Where was astronomy invented?

FoFP

I can show you where astronomy was demoted to cataloguing -

"I likewise call attractions and impulses, in the same sense,
accelerative, and motive; and use the words attraction, impulse or
propensity of any sort towards a centre, promiscuously, and
indifferently, one for another; considering those forces not
physically, but mathematically: wherefore, the reader is not to
imagine, that by those words, I anywhere take upon me to define the
kind, or the manner of any action, the causes or the physical reason
thereof, or that I attribute forces, in a true and physical sense, to
certain centres (which are only mathematical points); when at any time
I happen to speak of centres as attracting, or as endued with
attractive powers.

SCHOLIUM.
Hitherto I have laid down the definitions of such words as are less
known, and explained the sense in which I would have them to be
understood in the following discourse. I do not define time, space,
place and motion, as being well known to all. Only I must observe, that
the vulgar conceive those quantities under no other notions but from
the relation they bear to sensible objects. And thence arise certain
prejudices, for the removing of which, it will be convenient to
distinguish them into absolute and relative, true and apparent,
mathematical and common."

http://members.tripod.com/~gravitee/...tions.htm#time


Newton goes on to treat the vulgar to a giant display of linguistic
fireworks for the simple purpose of shifting the value of axial
rotation via the Equation of Time format to the sidereal format where
the vulgar have kept it ever since.

The beginning of astronomy stretches back to remote antiquity and
passed through civilisation after civilisation which sorted and sifted
things leading to the insights of Copernicus,Kepler and Roemer.

Around the early 18th century it began a descent and now only exists as
a means to promote monolithic celebrity and the idea that astronomy
belongs to the elite few who know what they are doing.

Everyone loses and not least future generations.

Martin Brown wrote:
Sayf Connary wrote:

Mark Underwood wrote:

It really is time that the Free world did something about the
paranoid culture of the USA . Europe has suffered greater terror
threats and deeds, American funded IRA to name but one, in the past
without this sort of parotid rubbish.

We are almost at the point I feel where enough is enough !


Blah, blah, blah. Take this political BS somewhere else.


But you can't deny that the Americans have become completely paranoid
post 9/11. One minor improvement for the UK is that now the IRA have to
rob banks to get money instead of sponging off gullible Americans.

You are right, but is this the right forum for discussing it? Since
everyone seems to think so I'll give my own opinion:

rant You also can't deny that the current British gov't aren't doing
similar things. Just look at some of the policies they are trying to
push through Parliament right now.

It seems like it's en vogue to blame the worlds problems on the American
gov't. They are any easy scape-goat. And I'll be the first to admit that
they do deserve blame for many things. This was one of the reasons I
moved to the UK after Bush was elected. I could see the disgrace coming
quickly. I, fortunately, married a British woman and she was able to
open my eyes to how the world really works. I was blinded by the media
and gov't for many years and I always had considered myself
knowledgeable on world affairs. Becoming enlightened has been an
infuriating experience, both because of what has been done in the name
of "freedom" and at myself for being duped. The rest of the world needs
to realise that I'm not the only one who has been misled. Many, many
Americans (and I'm not just talking about the ones who voted for Bush)
also are unaware of what's going on, although this may be slowly
changing. Americans aren't gullible, they can only react to the
information they are given. If that info is bad or misleading then they
will react badly or be misled. Making sweeping generalisations about all
Americans is insulting, bigoted and just plain not good. Maybe I was
gullible or maybe I just didn't try to get all the information I could
from every source available. I suppose I trusted the media in general to
tell me the truth and not distort information for their own purposes.
/rant

I hope that all makes sense, but if it doesn't then I apologise. Speak
to me about it off-group. I'm not going to respond any further on that
topic. For those who like to get the last word in, feel free to do so.

Any agency capable of deploying effective anti satellite measures will
be perfectly well able to track and acquire their target(s) with or
without a published ephemeris. Withholding this information just
inconveniences amateur space enthusiasts.

Agreed. It is sad indeed.

It wasn't so long ago that you could by prior arrangement visit BMEWS
Site 3 (RAF Fylingdales) as a group tour and go stand inside the golf
balls (now long gone). If they do still offer organised visits then it
is an interesting day out for an astrosoc. Their ground based images of
satellites are very interesting.

There is an astonishing selection of space junk that they catalogue
ranging from astronauts gloves to explosive bolt parts in low Earth
orbit as well as the more obvious spy birds.

Sounds interesting, I would be curious to see if they still allowed
visits to such a place.

Regards,
Martin Brown


--
~Sayf

Whilst under divine influence Martin Frey though i needed to know On=20
02/03/2005 18:54:
http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0503/02observing/
=20
It appears that someone with an ISP in Afghanistan logges into the
same data provider that heavens above uses on the day after 9/11.
Therefore, the war or terrrrrrr reuqires that the data provider be
shut down.
=20
"I'm a bit worried, but what more can I do?" Chris Peat, operator of
Heavens-Above, said in a telephone interview from Germany. "If they
tell me to stop doing it, I'll have no choice but to comply. If they
cut off my access, I can't get the elements. It's not just my source,
that's the source for everybody."
=20
The world's gone mad - but Mr Clarke will probably tag me and take
away my computer for thinking they're all as daft as Gerald.
=20
Cheers
=20
Martin
=20
--
Martin Frey
http://www.hadastro.org.uk
N 51 02 E 0 47


--=20

_______________________
http://thegeakes.co.uk/
=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=A F=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF=AF

Chaps, Chappetts

Lets face it , are we not just letting the terrorists win by changing=20
the way we live in order to avoid getting blown up???

If they want to hurt us no amount of security will stop them(aside from=20
killing every member of every fanatical religion).

The purpose of terror is to effect our daily lives, make us think twice=20
before we go or do....The death and destruction is a side effect!!!

My thoughts...

Rob

I like the idea of staring through my scope the orion nebula and having an
astronauts glove drift into the field of view. Realistically I think I need
a bigger scope. Perhaps I could justify it to the wife on these grounds !!!!

mark

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
Sayf Connary wrote:

Mark Underwood wrote:

It really is time that the Free world did something about the paranoid
culture of the USA . Europe has suffered greater terror threats and
deeds, American funded IRA to name but one, in the past without this
sort of parotid rubbish.

We are almost at the point I feel where enough is enough !

Blah, blah, blah. Take this political BS somewhere else.

But you can't deny that the Americans have become completely paranoid post
9/11. One minor improvement for the UK is that now the IRA have to rob
banks to get money instead of sponging off gullible Americans.

Any agency capable of deploying effective anti satellite measures will be
perfectly well able to track and acquire their target(s) with or without a
published ephemeris. Withholding this information just inconveniences
amateur space enthusiasts.

It wasn't so long ago that you could by prior arrangement visit BMEWS Site
3 (RAF Fylingdales) as a group tour and go stand inside the golf balls
(now long gone). If they do still offer organised visits then it is an
interesting day out for an astrosoc. Their ground based images of
satellites are very interesting.

There is an astonishing selection of space junk that they catalogue
ranging from astronauts gloves to explosive bolt parts in low Earth orbit
as well as the more obvious spy birds.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Personally if its political to say enough is enough to the American
Government and their paranoid rantings over an issue that affect my hobby
then let it be political... Sadly the world is moving that way that
regardless of the subject...it becomes political.... Remember the RGO
everyone ? Did anyone say ,'This is not astronomy, its political, let's
keep silent' ?

Sayf Connary wrote:

rant You also can't deny that the current British gov't aren't doing
similar things. Just look at some of the policies they are trying to
push through Parliament right now.

Disgusting and more terrrrfying than any terrrsts - but this is not
the right forum - there's plenty od bandwidth for that elsewhere. When
the war on terrrrrr leads to witholding information of great value or
interest or delight to astronomers it is legitimate and probably
mandatory for this forum.

It seems like it's en vogue to blame the worlds problems on the American
gov't.

It is in vogue and in many instances legitimate (Kyoto, Guantanamo,
Abu Ghraib, Bagram, Capital punishment, the list is long...) but as
you say, the UK seems hell bent on aping the US even down to the
treatment of refugees in the UK and Iraqi prisoners in Basra.

Let's at least make a voice be heard from here for freedom of
astronomical information that has no relevance to terrrrsts
whatsoever.

Cheers

Martin

--
Martin Frey
http://www.hadastro.org.uk
N 51 02 E 0 47

I can show you where astronomy was demoted to cataloguing -
"I likewise call attractions and impulses, in the same sense,
accelerative, and motive; and use the words attraction, impulse or

This post is a nuisance true, but to be completely unbearable it
should start ..
"BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE"
then the reams of crud, as all the truly great trolls do.
Your grammar is starting to turn decidedly minish.
Have you though of applying for a grant to improve your trolling ?
jc


--
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/jc_atm/

"John Carruthers" wrote in message
...
I can show you where astronomy was demoted to cataloguing -
"I likewise call attractions and impulses, in the same sense,
accelerative, and motive; and use the words attraction, impulse or

This post is a nuisance true, but to be completely unbearable it
should start ..
"BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE"
then the reams of crud, as all the truly great trolls do.
Your grammar is starting to turn decidedly minish.
Have you though of applying for a grant to improve your trolling ?
jc


John

With respect, your message seems a strange reply to the one from M Holmes.

Regards, Roger