NATU "NASA's Funding Shortfall Means Journey's End for Voyager Probes"

NATU "NASA's Funding Shortfall Means Journey's End for Voyager Probes"
Tony Reichhardt,Washington
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/0503...l/434125a.html
[EXCERPT]


NASA has told scientists working on some of the agency's longest-running
space missions - including the twin Voyagers now speeding towards the edge
of the Solar System - that they may have to shut down operations in October
to save money.

Jim Oberg wrote:
NATU "NASA's Funding Shortfall Means Journey's End for Voyager
Probes"
Tony Reichhardt,Washington
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/0503...l/434125a.html
[EXCERPT]


NASA has told scientists working on some of the agency's
longest-running
space missions - including the twin Voyagers now speeding towards the
edge
of the Solar System - that they may have to shut down operations in
October
to save money.

What exactly is involved in "operations" for the Voyager probes at this
point? I would think the only cost would be devoting the time from the
DSN antennas and logging the data.

It certainly seems like we could just be doing occaisional listening to
see if the probe motion matches predictions, at least until the Pioneer
deceleration mystery is solved...

However, if Voyager is still costing NASA more than $500,000 a year, I
would say it has passed the point of diminishing returns.

Tom Cuddihy

"Tom Cuddihy" wrote i
However, if Voyager is still costing NASA more than $500,000 a year, I
would say it has passed the point of diminishing returns.

Tom, there's major science discoveries still ahead, as V-1 approaches
the heliopause and enters galactic space.

"Tom Cuddihy" wrote in message
oups.com...

What exactly is involved in "operations" for the Voyager probes at this
point? I would think the only cost would be devoting the time from the
DSN antennas and logging the data.

It certainly seems like we could just be doing occaisional listening to
see if the probe motion matches predictions, at least until the Pioneer
deceleration mystery is solved...

However, if Voyager is still costing NASA more than $500,000 a year, I
would say it has passed the point of diminishing returns.

This could also be partly politics. NASA threatens to cut programs with
highly visible names like Voyager unless it gets the funding it "needs".

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

Jeff Findley wrote:

"Tom Cuddihy" wrote in message
oups.com...

What exactly is involved in "operations" for the Voyager probes at this
point? I would think the only cost would be devoting the time from the
DSN antennas and logging the data.

It certainly seems like we could just be doing occaisional listening to
see if the probe motion matches predictions, at least until the Pioneer
deceleration mystery is solved...

However, if Voyager is still costing NASA more than $500,000 a year, I
would say it has passed the point of diminishing returns.

This could also be partly politics. NASA threatens to cut programs with
highly visible names like Voyager unless it gets the funding it "needs".

There is also a funny accounting issue involved in some of these
numbers in comparison to previous years. NASA has been mandated to
move to full-cost accounting, so that services such as DSN use
now appear on individual projects' books. On paper this
was a zero-sum change, but will make some programs look more
expensive than they did when such things were absorbed into the
overall agency budget.

Bill Keel

"William C. Keel" wrote in message
...
There is also a funny accounting issue involved in some of these
numbers in comparison to previous years. NASA has been mandated to
move to full-cost accounting, so that services such as DSN use
now appear on individual projects' books. On paper this
was a zero-sum change, but will make some programs look more
expensive than they did when such things were absorbed into the
overall agency budget.

While this is true, I don't think that the Voyagers in particular take up
very much DSN time, but since they're so far away, I'm sure only the biggest
dishes can be used to pick up their faint signals.

I took a look at this site, but was unable to find out how much time or
money is devoted to which missions:

http://dsnscience.jpl.nasa.gov/office.html

Jeff
--
Remove icky phrase from email address to get a valid address.

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

"William C. Keel" wrote in message
...
There is also a funny accounting issue involved in some of these
numbers in comparison to previous years. NASA has been mandated to
move to full-cost accounting, so that services such as DSN use
now appear on individual projects' books. On paper this
was a zero-sum change, but will make some programs look more
expensive than they did when such things were absorbed into the
overall agency budget.

While this is true, I don't think that the Voyagers in particular take up
very much DSN time, but since they're so far away, I'm sure only the
biggest
dishes can be used to pick up their faint signals.

I took a look at this site, but was unable to find out how much time or
money is devoted to which missions:

http://dsnscience.jpl.nasa.gov/office.html

Jeff


I believe the number I saw this morning was $4.3M per anum.

On 2005-03-10, Jeff Findley wrote:

While this is true, I don't think that the Voyagers in particular take up
very much DSN time, but since they're so far away, I'm sure only the biggest
dishes can be used to pick up their faint signals.

From http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/weekly-reports/, in the
first two weeks of 2005, hours of "DSN scheduled support" we

"large aperture coverage" other coverage
Voyager 1 21.8h 107.9h
Voyager 2 61.2h 55.4h
Total 83.0h 163.3h

Voyager 2 is 25% further away, which explains why it needs
more large aperture coverage and less "other" coverage.
I guess large aperture means the 70m dishes.

All in all, about 18 hours per day.
Scaling these numbers up, this is about 2160 hours of large
aperture coverage and 4260 hours of other coverage per year.

Taking a wild guess of the cost of an hour of DSN support
as $400 for large aperture and $100 for small aperture gives
a cost of about $1.3 million per year.



--
Peter Evans, Berlin, Germany

Jim Oberg wrote:

NATU "NASA's Funding Shortfall Means Journey's End for Voyager Probes"
Tony Reichhardt,Washington
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/0503...l/434125a.html
[EXCERPT]


NASA has told scientists working on some of the agency's longest-running
space missions - including the twin Voyagers now speeding towards the edge
of the Solar System - that they may have to shut down operations in October
to save money.


The Voyagers are coming close to the end of the
heliosphere and would have been the first man-made
machines to reach interstellar space.

That kind of space is vastly different than what we find in the
influence sphere of the Sun. (The heliosphere).

The composition, particle/count, etc of interstellar space
will become increasingly interesting when we start to understand
what is the composition of our galactic neighborhood.

Such things are beyond the understanding and intellectual
ability of the Bush administration however.

Stop science, and start the hype about "the moon and beyond".

Once all science is gone from NASA, you shut down it altogether
in the next financial squeeze. The Bush administration needs
1.8 bill dollars a day to get going. This is furnished by
foreign investors, but as even Greenspan acknowledges, this is not
going to last forever.

In the impeding financial squeeze, NASA will completely disappear.

jacob navia wrote:
That kind of space is vastly different than what we find in the
influence sphere of the Sun. (The heliosphere).


I'm not sure what's so different about the area farther out. It's
probably full of hot air, just like you.

Such things are beyond the understanding and intellectual
ability of the Bush administration however.

Je pense que vous croyez tout qu'on lit dans 'Le Monde.' Peut-etre
essayer de faire quelque chose plus difficile, comme de penser
actuellment...vous singe cedant mangeant de fromage...

Once all science is gone from NASA, you shut down it altogether
in the next financial squeeze. The Bush administration needs
1.8 bill dollars a day to get going. This is furnished by
foreign investors, but as even Greenspan acknowledges, this is not
going to last forever.

Your understanding of international currency finance is on a par with
your understanding of space science...