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  #1  
Old October 31st 04, 05:52 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default New Purchase Suggestions

Hi all,
I'm new to all this but I want to look into buying something to get started.
I hope you all can give me a few suggestions to get started. I'm willing to
spend the time to learn something a bit complicated rather then buying
something that I'll want to upgrade or trade in a year.

Here is what I have to work with...
* Spending around $2,500.
* Somewhat portable, just enough to drive out the country for nice viewings.
* Clear crisp pictures using my Olympus digital 5050z camera. I took two
months choosing this camera becasue I wanted the best underwater pictures
for the price, so I might as well try to use it for this. Not trying to brag
but I do like nice pictures
http://www.robert-e-morgan.com/cayma...older=bestpics
* Hookup for my PC or laptop to view or control movement.
* I want to see as many things as I can but I think deep space is best for
my picture taking.

Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks



  #2  
Old October 31st 04, 02:14 PM
Jon Isaacs
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks


Hello Rob.

Welcome aboard and welcome to a great pass time.

You are looking for some advice, I am going to provide some, though it may not
quite be what you are hoping for. I will not recommend any scope or mount or
eyepieces.

There are lots of different aspects to this hobby, lots of different parts of
it people find that they enjoy. Some people find they are most interested in
viewing the planets, seeing every last detail waiting for hours for that
perfect glimspe. Some folks enjoy viewing faint deep sky objects, some enjoy
star hopping, some just enjoy sitting out under the clear night sky and
wandering around, seeing what they might see, some enjoy taking photos of the
deep sky, some sketch what they see at the eyepiece....

Most have some balance....

And for each type, there is equipment specifically suited for that pursuit.
There is no "best" telescope that will do everything, there are always
compromises, trade offs...

I believe that for someone who is starting out, it is not really possible to
know what you will find to be the most exciting aspect, what will make you get
up at 3 AM to see if the stars are out or drive 100miles to get in a few hours
of pleasure.

So, my suggestion really is to start simply, start with a basic general purpose
scope, get some experience, discover what it is that you really like doing and
then choose the equipment that will allow you to do that.

This may sound harsh, but I am a firm believer that someone starting out needs
a scope suited for someone starting out. When you are more experienced, you
will have different needs.

Used scopes are easy to sell and while they lose some value, the existence of a
global marketplace, ie www.astromart.com, means that you can buy something for
now and then sell it when your are ready to move on.

So, here's a taste of my suggestions:

1. Before buying anything, I hope you take the time to educate yourself by
joining a local astronomy club and getting some experience looking at and
looking through a variety of telescopes. There are many options of sizes and
types. Each has its own set of capabilities and liabilities. It is difficult
to really know what will strike you fancy without spending some time under the
stars.

It is good to find out that one scope might take 30 minutes to setup while
another of equal light gathering ability might take a minute. It is good to
have some sort of idea what you will see in variety of apertures(objective or
mirror diameter), the experience of looking at the deep sky in a 4 inch F15
scope is different than that of viewing it in a 5 inch F5 scope which will be
amazingly different from the views provided by a 10 inch F5 scope.

Issues like field of view, dewing, tracking, collimation, thermal equilibrium,
coma, chromatic aberration(false color), polar alignment, periodic error
correction, auto guiding, vibration....

There is just a great deal to learn and understand about operating a telescope,
there is no ideal scope, no one scope that is the best value, the best deal...

2. So, I recommend that even after you get some experience, you consider
something simple as a first scope, something that will allow you to discover
what you enjoy and don't enjoy. Then when you have some experience, then is
the time to spend some real money on the stuff that will serve your needs.

3. Astrophotography is an expensive and tedious task. It is one part of this
hobby where dollars really make a big difference, having the correct equipment,
really does make a big difference, especially when imaging the deep sky. A
good rig starts at the bottom with a solid tripod, a solid mount that has
accurate tracking, auto-guiding, and then one adds a scope or two and a camera
or two as well.

Deep sky imaging is possible with general purpose digital cameras such as your
C-5050, it does allow exposures up to 16 seconds and it does have noise
reduction, both of these make it possible. With your camera you would be able
to image the planets, starfields and some of the brighter Deep sky objects.

But in general, deep sky photography requires exposures much longer than 16
seconds and requires cameras that cool the CCD chip because otherwise. Such
cameras are expensive, though getting cheaper. A 5 mega pixel AstroCamera
would be probably be over $10,000. Fortunately one does not need a 5 megapixel
camera and under most circumstances those pixels are wasted.

A couple of good sites for photography are

www.astropix.com

Lots of photos and a good section that is basically a primer in all aspects of
Astrophotography.

www.astro-physics.com Lots of nice astrophotos take by a variety of folks,
most all with Astro-Physics scopes with a variety of cameras.

So, I hope I haven't discouraged you. Joining a club and getting in some time
with experienced folks ought to be exciting and at the same time help you
discover what this is all about....

Best wishes,

jon isaacs

  #3  
Old October 31st 04, 04:35 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thank you for the suggestions! What's poplular? I mean are there any
particular produts that most people, who have been doing for a while, tend
to lean towards?


"Jon Isaacs" wrote in message
...
Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks


Hello Rob.

Welcome aboard and welcome to a great pass time.

You are looking for some advice, I am going to provide some, though it may

not
quite be what you are hoping for. I will not recommend any scope or mount

or
eyepieces.

There are lots of different aspects to this hobby, lots of different parts

of
it people find that they enjoy. Some people find they are most

interested in
viewing the planets, seeing every last detail waiting for hours for that
perfect glimspe. Some folks enjoy viewing faint deep sky objects, some

enjoy
star hopping, some just enjoy sitting out under the clear night sky and
wandering around, seeing what they might see, some enjoy taking photos of

the
deep sky, some sketch what they see at the eyepiece....

Most have some balance....

And for each type, there is equipment specifically suited for that

pursuit.
There is no "best" telescope that will do everything, there are always
compromises, trade offs...

I believe that for someone who is starting out, it is not really possible

to
know what you will find to be the most exciting aspect, what will make you

get
up at 3 AM to see if the stars are out or drive 100miles to get in a few

hours
of pleasure.

So, my suggestion really is to start simply, start with a basic general

purpose
scope, get some experience, discover what it is that you really like doing

and
then choose the equipment that will allow you to do that.

This may sound harsh, but I am a firm believer that someone starting out

needs
a scope suited for someone starting out. When you are more experienced,

you
will have different needs.

Used scopes are easy to sell and while they lose some value, the existence

of a
global marketplace, ie www.astromart.com, means that you can buy something

for
now and then sell it when your are ready to move on.

So, here's a taste of my suggestions:

1. Before buying anything, I hope you take the time to educate yourself

by
joining a local astronomy club and getting some experience looking at and
looking through a variety of telescopes. There are many options of sizes

and
types. Each has its own set of capabilities and liabilities. It is

difficult
to really know what will strike you fancy without spending some time under

the
stars.

It is good to find out that one scope might take 30 minutes to setup while
another of equal light gathering ability might take a minute. It is good

to
have some sort of idea what you will see in variety of apertures(objective

or
mirror diameter), the experience of looking at the deep sky in a 4 inch

F15
scope is different than that of viewing it in a 5 inch F5 scope which will

be
amazingly different from the views provided by a 10 inch F5 scope.

Issues like field of view, dewing, tracking, collimation, thermal

equilibrium,
coma, chromatic aberration(false color), polar alignment, periodic error
correction, auto guiding, vibration....

There is just a great deal to learn and understand about operating a

telescope,
there is no ideal scope, no one scope that is the best value, the best

deal...

2. So, I recommend that even after you get some experience, you consider
something simple as a first scope, something that will allow you to

discover
what you enjoy and don't enjoy. Then when you have some experience, then

is
the time to spend some real money on the stuff that will serve your needs.

3. Astrophotography is an expensive and tedious task. It is one part of

this
hobby where dollars really make a big difference, having the correct

equipment,
really does make a big difference, especially when imaging the deep sky.

A
good rig starts at the bottom with a solid tripod, a solid mount that has
accurate tracking, auto-guiding, and then one adds a scope or two and a

camera
or two as well.

Deep sky imaging is possible with general purpose digital cameras such as

your
C-5050, it does allow exposures up to 16 seconds and it does have noise
reduction, both of these make it possible. With your camera you would be

able
to image the planets, starfields and some of the brighter Deep sky

objects.

But in general, deep sky photography requires exposures much longer than

16
seconds and requires cameras that cool the CCD chip because otherwise.

Such
cameras are expensive, though getting cheaper. A 5 mega pixel

AstroCamera
would be probably be over $10,000. Fortunately one does not need a 5

megapixel
camera and under most circumstances those pixels are wasted.

A couple of good sites for photography are

www.astropix.com

Lots of photos and a good section that is basically a primer in all

aspects of
Astrophotography.

www.astro-physics.com Lots of nice astrophotos take by a variety of

folks,
most all with Astro-Physics scopes with a variety of cameras.

So, I hope I haven't discouraged you. Joining a club and getting in some

time
with experienced folks ought to be exciting and at the same time help you
discover what this is all about....

Best wishes,

jon isaacs



  #4  
Old October 31st 04, 07:56 PM
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:52:55 GMT, wrote:

Hi all,
I'm new to all this but I want to look into buying something to get started.
I hope you all can give me a few suggestions to get started. I'm willing to
spend the time to learn something a bit complicated rather then buying
something that I'll want to upgrade or trade in a year.

Here is what I have to work with...
* Spending around $2,500.
* Somewhat portable, just enough to drive out the country for nice viewings.
* Clear crisp pictures using my Olympus digital 5050z camera. I took two
months choosing this camera becasue I wanted the best underwater pictures
for the price, so I might as well try to use it for this. Not trying to brag
but I do like nice pictures
http://www.robert-e-morgan.com/cayma...older=bestpics
* Hookup for my PC or laptop to view or control movement.
* I want to see as many things as I can but I think deep space is best for
my picture taking.

Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks



I don't think your camera is suitable for taking deepsky pictures.
You need to be able to expose for a long period of time, at least
five minutes and show little electronic noise in the pictures to be
able to do this. Your camera (like my Olympus C-3040) is limited
to 16 second long exposures and will have considerable electronic
noise in shots that long, it looks like little coloured speckles.

This is why people are now primarily buying Canon digital SLRs
(long exposure and low noise capability)or dedicated astronomical CCD
cameras.

However, you will be able to take good pictures of the Moon, planets,
etc.

The good news is that companies like Meade are coming out with
very inexpensive deepsky capable CCD/CMOS cameras. The Meade
unit costs $299 so it can be incorporated into your telescope
package.

IMO, the best scope for you that provides decent aperture (mirror/lens
size for picking up the light of deepsky objects) and fits into your
budget would be a Meade LX-200 GPS 8", Meade LX-90 or Celestron's
Nexstar 8" GPS. These scopes have good aperture, are portable will
Goto objects and track them. Scopes in the market tier below this
tend to need some attention when it comes to doing those tasks well.
Above this market tier, your looking at several thousand dollars
for something equivalent or better.


  #5  
Old October 31st 04, 08:04 PM
starlord
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

No matter what price range your looking to buy, may I suggest at lest a
glance at :

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

Some good scope makers listed in there too.

--


The Forgotten
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/forgotten.htm





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  #6  
Old November 1st 04, 02:15 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Yeah, I went though this a few days ago and book marked it. It seemed like
a good start.

"starlord" wrote in message
...
No matter what price range your looking to buy, may I suggest at lest a
glance at :

Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord

Some good scope makers listed in there too.

--


The Forgotten
http://home.inreach.com/starlord/forgotten.htm





---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.779 / Virus Database: 526 - Release Date: 10/19/04




  #7  
Old November 2nd 04, 02:18 AM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks! I've read a little about taking pictures with shorter exposures and
then overlaying them. Any idea how well this works? I've also seen a few
web pages that shows how to modify different web cams. That also seems
interesting. Your suggestion about the CCD/CMOS camera is a good option.
There seems to be a lot of information on the web about using the CCD. That
$299 Mead camera seems resonable and the results look pretty nice at times.

The Meade LX-200 GPS 8", Meade LX-90 and Celestron's Nexstar 8" GPS are the
very ones I've been looking at. I'm considering buying used to try to get
in the 10" or 12" range. Seems a lot of people like the popular Mead LX200
GPS and I see why. Then the Dobsonians seems nice but probably not a good
idea for me to start taking up half the garage space yet. I also like the
Refractors so I found one I liked, 130mm f8 STARFIRE, thenl I saw the price
Now I'm back to the Schmidt-Cassegrain but I think I can do without the
GPS stuff in order to get something larger.


"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:52:55 GMT, wrote:

Hi all,
I'm new to all this but I want to look into buying something to get

started.
I hope you all can give me a few suggestions to get started. I'm willing

to
spend the time to learn something a bit complicated rather then buying
something that I'll want to upgrade or trade in a year.

Here is what I have to work with...
* Spending around $2,500.
* Somewhat portable, just enough to drive out the country for nice

viewings.
* Clear crisp pictures using my Olympus digital 5050z camera. I took two
months choosing this camera becasue I wanted the best underwater pictures
for the price, so I might as well try to use it for this. Not trying to

brag
but I do like nice pictures
http://www.robert-e-morgan.com/cayma...older=bestpics
* Hookup for my PC or laptop to view or control movement.
* I want to see as many things as I can but I think deep space is best

for
my picture taking.

Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks



I don't think your camera is suitable for taking deepsky pictures.
You need to be able to expose for a long period of time, at least
five minutes and show little electronic noise in the pictures to be
able to do this. Your camera (like my Olympus C-3040) is limited
to 16 second long exposures and will have considerable electronic
noise in shots that long, it looks like little coloured speckles.

This is why people are now primarily buying Canon digital SLRs
(long exposure and low noise capability)or dedicated astronomical CCD
cameras.

However, you will be able to take good pictures of the Moon, planets,
etc.

The good news is that companies like Meade are coming out with
very inexpensive deepsky capable CCD/CMOS cameras. The Meade
unit costs $299 so it can be incorporated into your telescope
package.

IMO, the best scope for you that provides decent aperture (mirror/lens
size for picking up the light of deepsky objects) and fits into your
budget would be a Meade LX-200 GPS 8", Meade LX-90 or Celestron's
Nexstar 8" GPS. These scopes have good aperture, are portable will
Goto objects and track them. Scopes in the market tier below this
tend to need some attention when it comes to doing those tasks well.
Above this market tier, your looking at several thousand dollars
for something equivalent or better.




  #8  
Old November 2nd 04, 03:40 AM
RichA
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 02 Nov 2004 01:18:25 GMT, wrote:

Thanks! I've read a little about taking pictures with shorter exposures and
then overlaying them. Any idea how well this works? I've also seen a few
web pages that shows how to modify different web cams. That also seems
interesting. Your suggestion about the CCD/CMOS camera is a good option.
There seems to be a lot of information on the web about using the CCD. That
$299 Mead camera seems resonable and the results look pretty nice at times.

The Meade LX-200 GPS 8", Meade LX-90 and Celestron's Nexstar 8" GPS are the
very ones I've been looking at. I'm considering buying used to try to get
in the 10" or 12" range. Seems a lot of people like the popular Mead LX200
GPS and I see why. Then the Dobsonians seems nice but probably not a good
idea for me to start taking up half the garage space yet. I also like the
Refractors so I found one I liked, 130mm f8 STARFIRE, thenl I saw the price
Now I'm back to the Schmidt-Cassegrain but I think I can do without the
GPS stuff in order to get something larger.


There are other apos out there to buy, from TMB, TEC, Takahashi,
TeleVue. Funny how they all begin with T??
But they all sport high prices, around $5000+.
That's without a mount of course.
But the Meade camera looks pretty foolproof, no clunky outboard power
supplies needed, etc.
-Rich

  #9  
Old November 2nd 04, 03:44 AM
Doink
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jon always gives answers like that. He's too good for us. Nice sermon
though.

Doink


"Jon Isaacs" wrote in message
...
Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks


Hello Rob.

Welcome aboard and welcome to a great pass time.

You are looking for some advice, I am going to provide some, though it may
not
quite be what you are hoping for. I will not recommend any scope or mount
or
eyepieces.

There are lots of different aspects to this hobby, lots of different parts
of
it people find that they enjoy. Some people find they are most
interested in
viewing the planets, seeing every last detail waiting for hours for that
perfect glimspe. Some folks enjoy viewing faint deep sky objects, some
enjoy
star hopping, some just enjoy sitting out under the clear night sky and
wandering around, seeing what they might see, some enjoy taking photos of
the
deep sky, some sketch what they see at the eyepiece....

Most have some balance....

And for each type, there is equipment specifically suited for that
pursuit.
There is no "best" telescope that will do everything, there are always
compromises, trade offs...

I believe that for someone who is starting out, it is not really possible
to
know what you will find to be the most exciting aspect, what will make you
get
up at 3 AM to see if the stars are out or drive 100miles to get in a few
hours
of pleasure.

So, my suggestion really is to start simply, start with a basic general
purpose
scope, get some experience, discover what it is that you really like doing
and
then choose the equipment that will allow you to do that.

This may sound harsh, but I am a firm believer that someone starting out
needs
a scope suited for someone starting out. When you are more experienced,
you
will have different needs.

Used scopes are easy to sell and while they lose some value, the existence
of a
global marketplace, ie www.astromart.com, means that you can buy something
for
now and then sell it when your are ready to move on.

So, here's a taste of my suggestions:

1. Before buying anything, I hope you take the time to educate yourself
by
joining a local astronomy club and getting some experience looking at and
looking through a variety of telescopes. There are many options of sizes
and
types. Each has its own set of capabilities and liabilities. It is
difficult
to really know what will strike you fancy without spending some time under
the
stars.

It is good to find out that one scope might take 30 minutes to setup while
another of equal light gathering ability might take a minute. It is good
to
have some sort of idea what you will see in variety of apertures(objective
or
mirror diameter), the experience of looking at the deep sky in a 4 inch
F15
scope is different than that of viewing it in a 5 inch F5 scope which will
be
amazingly different from the views provided by a 10 inch F5 scope.

Issues like field of view, dewing, tracking, collimation, thermal
equilibrium,
coma, chromatic aberration(false color), polar alignment, periodic error
correction, auto guiding, vibration....

There is just a great deal to learn and understand about operating a
telescope,
there is no ideal scope, no one scope that is the best value, the best
deal...

2. So, I recommend that even after you get some experience, you consider
something simple as a first scope, something that will allow you to
discover
what you enjoy and don't enjoy. Then when you have some experience, then
is
the time to spend some real money on the stuff that will serve your needs.

3. Astrophotography is an expensive and tedious task. It is one part of
this
hobby where dollars really make a big difference, having the correct
equipment,
really does make a big difference, especially when imaging the deep sky.
A
good rig starts at the bottom with a solid tripod, a solid mount that has
accurate tracking, auto-guiding, and then one adds a scope or two and a
camera
or two as well.

Deep sky imaging is possible with general purpose digital cameras such as
your
C-5050, it does allow exposures up to 16 seconds and it does have noise
reduction, both of these make it possible. With your camera you would be
able
to image the planets, starfields and some of the brighter Deep sky
objects.

But in general, deep sky photography requires exposures much longer than
16
seconds and requires cameras that cool the CCD chip because otherwise.
Such
cameras are expensive, though getting cheaper. A 5 mega pixel
AstroCamera
would be probably be over $10,000. Fortunately one does not need a 5
megapixel
camera and under most circumstances those pixels are wasted.

A couple of good sites for photography are

www.astropix.com

Lots of photos and a good section that is basically a primer in all
aspects of
Astrophotography.

www.astro-physics.com Lots of nice astrophotos take by a variety of
folks,
most all with Astro-Physics scopes with a variety of cameras.

So, I hope I haven't discouraged you. Joining a club and getting in some
time
with experienced folks ought to be exciting and at the same time help you
discover what this is all about....

Best wishes,

jon isaacs



  #10  
Old November 2nd 04, 09:44 AM
Robin R. Wier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Jon Isaacs wrote:
Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks



Hello Rob.

Welcome aboard and welcome to a great pass time.

You are looking for some advice, I am going to provide some, though it may not
quite be what you are hoping for. I will not recommend any scope or mount or
eyepieces.

................................
A couple of good sites for photography are

www.astropix.com

Lots of photos and a good section that is basically a primer in all aspects of
Astrophotography.

www.astro-physics.com Lots of nice astrophotos take by a variety of folks,
most all with Astro-Physics scopes with a variety of cameras.

So, I hope I haven't discouraged you. Joining a club and getting in some time
with experienced folks ought to be exciting and at the same time help you
discover what this is all about....

Best wishes,

jon isaacs


lurker says,
Jon's post is an outstanding example of the good and proper responses
that are so few, and far between.
imho
 




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