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Chinese Space Station News



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 20th 16, 04:02 AM posted to sci.space.policy
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Posts: 687
Default Chinese Space Station News

Three Words: Chinese. Space. Station.:

"China has just launched its second small Tiangong space station into orbit,
more or less catching up to what the United States’ and Russia’s own space
programs achieved starting in the 1970s.

Riding atop a Long March rocket, the 34-foot-long, 10-ton Tiangong-2 blasted
off from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Center in northwest China on Sept. 15,
aiming for an orbit 240 miles over Earth’s surface."


See:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...e-station.html



================================================== =

In with the new, out with the old!

================================================== =


China Confirms Its Space Station Is Falling Back to Earth:


"In a press conference on Wednesday, Chinese officials appear to have confirmed
what many observers have long suspected: that China is no longer in control of
its space station.

China's Tiangong-1 space station has been orbiting the planet for about 5 years
now, but recently it was decommissioned and the Chinese astronauts returned to
the surface. In a press conference last week, China announced that the space
station would be falling back to earth at some point in late 2017."

See:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/spac...ling-to-earth/


  #5  
Old September 21st 16, 11:31 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default Chinese Space Station News

In article ,
says...

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 2:27:20 PM UTC-4, jacob navia wrote:
Le 20/09/2016 à 05:02,
a écrit :
China's Tiangong-1 space station has been orbiting the planet for about 5 years
now, but recently it was decommissioned and the Chinese astronauts returned to
the surface. In a press conference last week, China announced that the space
station would be falling back to earth at some point in late 2017."


Problem is:

The chinese controllers have lost the command over the ship that will
fall incontrably to earth somewhere.

I find it preposterous that space ships fall somewhere, maybe over
someone's head... The chinese (americans russians whatever) should
ensure that the ship is disposed in a controlled manner, over an empty
area of the planet!


this will be a problem untill the situation fixes itself........

a major part comes down in a city and kills a bunch of people.


Very unlikely given the percentage of the surface of the earth covered
by "city".

they are playing the odds, and have been successful so far, but it will eventually happen


And the odds are clearly in their favor.

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #6  
Old September 21st 16, 12:50 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default Chinese Space Station News

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 6:31:14 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 2:27:20 PM UTC-4, jacob navia wrote:
Le 20/09/2016 Ã* 05:02,
a écrit :
China's Tiangong-1 space station has been orbiting the planet for about 5 years
now, but recently it was decommissioned and the Chinese astronauts returned to
the surface. In a press conference last week, China announced that the space
station would be falling back to earth at some point in late 2017."

Problem is:

The chinese controllers have lost the command over the ship that will
fall incontrably to earth somewhere.

I find it preposterous that space ships fall somewhere, maybe over
someone's head... The chinese (americans russians whatever) should
ensure that the ship is disposed in a controlled manner, over an empty
area of the planet!


this will be a problem untill the situation fixes itself........

a major part comes down in a city and kills a bunch of people.


Very unlikely given the percentage of the surface of the earth covered
by "city".

they are playing the odds, and have been successful so far, but it will eventually happen


And the odds are clearly in their favor.

Jeff


very unlikely means its still possible.. rocket owners have been playing the odds forever. its assured one day they will come back to bite them


the most likely event. a failure on iss leads to loss of control. station is big heavy complex and in low orbit.....

when station begins to enter modules will break off, scattering debris, many of which will survive rentry, all over our world.

Causing a world wide panic..
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.


  #7  
Old September 21st 16, 02:39 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Rob[_8_]
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Posts: 57
Default Chinese Space Station News

bob haller wrote:
this will be a problem untill the situation fixes itself........

a major part comes down in a city and kills a bunch of people.


Very unlikely given the percentage of the surface of the earth covered
by "city".

they are playing the odds, and have been successful so far, but it will eventually happen


And the odds are clearly in their favor.

Jeff


very unlikely means its still possible.. rocket owners have been playing the odds forever. its assured one day they will come back to bite them


the most likely event. a failure on iss leads to loss of control. station is big heavy complex and in low orbit.....

when station begins to enter modules will break off, scattering debris, many of which will survive rentry, all over our world.

Causing a world wide panic..


Well, this has all happened before, e.g. with Skylab (which was
uncontrollable) and MIR (which was controllable). Reality is that:

- parts that break off are often small enough to burn up completely

- large parts that survive re-entry will have a comparable trajectory and
will all fall in roughly the same region, not "all over our world"

- parts cannot fall "all over the world" anyway, but only in a region
around the equator defined by the inclination of the orbit.
for tiangong-1, the orbital inclination is 42.77 degrees, meaning
regions further north and south than that latitude are not at risk.

- most people grossly over-estimate the population density of the world.
even in very densely populated countries (excluding city-states), the
percentage of built-up areas is usually only around 10%.
and only 30% of the surface is land anyway.
  #8  
Old September 21st 16, 04:01 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 752
Default Chinese Space Station News

"bob haller" wrote in message
...

On Wednesday, September 21, 2016 at 6:31:14 AM UTC-4, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 2:27:20 PM UTC-4, jacob navia wrote:
Le 20/09/2016 Ã* 05:02,
a écrit :
China's Tiangong-1 space station has been orbiting the planet for
about 5 years
now, but recently it was decommissioned and the Chinese astronauts
returned to
the surface. In a press conference last week, China announced that
the space
station would be falling back to earth at some point in late 2017."

Problem is:

The chinese controllers have lost the command over the ship that will
fall incontrably to earth somewhere.

I find it preposterous that space ships fall somewhere, maybe over
someone's head... The chinese (americans russians whatever) should
ensure that the ship is disposed in a controlled manner, over an
empty
area of the planet!

this will be a problem untill the situation fixes itself........

a major part comes down in a city and kills a bunch of people.


Very unlikely given the percentage of the surface of the earth covered
by "city".

they are playing the odds, and have been successful so far, but it will
eventually happen


And the odds are clearly in their favor.

Jeff


very unlikely means its still possible.. rocket owners have been playing
the odds forever. its assured one day they will come back to bite them


the most likely event. a failure on iss leads to loss of control. station
is big heavy complex and in low orbit.....

when station begins to enter modules will break off, scattering debris,
many of which will survive rentry, all over our world.

Causing a world wide panic..


I want to live in your perfect world Bob. Sounds so perfect.

Seriously, you do realize that efforts ARE made to bring down large items in
a controlled manner. (Mir being the largest so far).
BUT, "**** happens". It's not like the Chinese launched this and said "once
the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my
department,"





--
Greg D. Moore
http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #9  
Old September 21st 16, 07:15 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Chinese Space Station News

bob haller wrote:

On Tuesday, September 20, 2016 at 2:27:20 PM UTC-4, jacob navia wrote:
Le 20/09/2016 à 05:02, a écrit :
China's Tiangong-1 space station has been orbiting the planet for about 5 years
now, but recently it was decommissioned and the Chinese astronauts returned to
the surface. In a press conference last week, China announced that the space
station would be falling back to earth at some point in late 2017."


Problem is:

The chinese controllers have lost the command over the ship that will
fall incontrably to earth somewhere.

I find it preposterous that space ships fall somewhere, maybe over
someone's head... The chinese (americans russians whatever) should
ensure that the ship is disposed in a controlled manner, over an empty
area of the planet!


this will be a problem untill the situation fixes itself........

a major part comes down in a city and kills a bunch of people.


Contrary to what you apparently believe, Bob, there are already
treaties that hold launching powers responsible for safe reentry. It's
not going to get 'fixed' any better than that.


they are playing the odds, and have been successful so far, but it will eventually happen


Who is this 'they' of whom you speak?


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
  #10  
Old September 21st 16, 08:05 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Rob[_8_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 57
Default Chinese Space Station News

JF Mezei wrote:
On 2016-09-21 09:39, Rob wrote:
- parts cannot fall "all over the world" anyway, but only in a region

around the equator defined by the inclination of the orbit.
for tiangong-1, the orbital inclination is 42.77 degrees, meaning
regions further north and south than that latitude are not at risk.




I remember Skylab. Lots of attention and speculation because they
couldn't predict where it would fall and its orbit during last few days
spent fair amount of time over Canada.


But Skylab's orbit inclination was 50 degrees, much like ISS.

Also you should not confuse what "they" tell you in the media and
what really cannot be predicted. It was easy to predict where Skylab
was never going to fall, but much more difficult to predict where it
was actually going to fall. Of course the media like to tell about
uncertainties.

While NORAD would have a good grasp of the "object" while it is in orbit
in vaccum, would people with re-entry experience (Russians and to lesser
extent americas) have enough data about the station module(s) to be able
to model its re-entry once it starts to feel atmosphere ?


Yes, but they *do* know that re-entry is not going to affect the
inclination, only the mean motion (the rate at which it travels around
the earth). It is difficult to predict how fast the mean motion will
change. This means that it is possible to draw a groundtrack that
covers the possible re-entry sites, but it is difficult to predict
exactly where on that track it is going to come down.
 




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