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#11
March 28th 16, 01:12 PM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a baseon the moon
On Mar/27/2016 8:47 PM, Sylvia Else wrote :
On 26/03/2016 4:02 AM, wrote: "The European Space Agency recently announced plans for an international moon base. The agency believes they could start building the complex in 20 years, with different countries focusing on their areas of expertise." See: http://www.techinsider.io/esa-intern...-agency-2016-3 Twenty years is conveniently more than the likely tenure of anyone currently responsible for getting the job done. Looks like a cash grab that avoids the downside of failure. Sylvia. You can put some intermediate goals in there. So those responsible for getting the job done can show success or failure in a reasonable timespan. It is possible to do projects that span multiple decades. Alain Fournier 
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#12
March 29th 16, 01:10 AM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a baseon the moon
On Mar/28/2016 7:10 PM, JF Mezei wrote :
On 2016-03-28 08:12, Alain Fournier wrote: You can put some intermediate goals in there. So those responsible for getting the job done can show success or failure in a reasonable timespan. It is possible to do projects that span multiple decades. Until the USA govt runs a sustainable surplus, the odds of a NASA budget large enough for mars mission being sustained for more than 2 political terms are low. SLS/Orion are just subsidies to a couple of companies to keep jobs. Not enough for a real Mars mission. Well this thread was about the European space agency not NASA. I agree about your assessment of SLS/Orion. And it might even be somewhat relevant to the European project which sparked this thread. But it doesn't have to be that way. It is possible to organise a project that will span decades without it being just a means of sustaining jobs. And to have intermediate goals that ensure that progress can be measured before those who started the project retire. On the other hand, the ISS points the way to some means to do a long term project. Consider Transhab. last minute development that could have reduced costs of IOSS was refused. What if you start a Mars project and after a point, new developments/technologies that could make a big difference are refused ? At one point, perhaps it is best to freeze the design and "make it so" and incorporate new tech into future expeditions. Yes. Alain Fournier
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#13
March 29th 16, 04:56 AM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a baseon the moon
On Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 7:45:14 AM UTC+13, Alain Fournier wrote:
On Mar/27/2016 8:47 PM, Sylvia Else wrote : On 26/03/2016 4:02 AM, wrote: "The European Space Agency recently announced plans for an international moon base. The agency believes they could start building the complex in 20 years, with different countries focusing on their areas of expertise." See: http://www.techinsider.io/esa-intern...-agency-2016-3 Twenty years is conveniently more than the likely tenure of anyone currently responsible for getting the job done. Looks like a cash grab that avoids the downside of failure. Sylvia. You can put some intermediate goals in there. So those responsible for getting the job done can show success or failure in a reasonable timespan. It is possible to do projects that span multiple decades. Alain Fournier There are a lot of parallel developments that are being taken now that will result in radical transformations. These have been ongoing for several decades. Utility fog requires self-replicating swarms of very tiny robots that have a significant AI capacity. Controlling and coordinating the actions of large swarms to carry out specific ends is one aspect, this will form what we might call the operating system upon which AI will run. Robot Swarm - operating system for utility fog. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xK54Bu9HFRw Another core aspect is the ability to interact with the environment in intelligent ways. Interacting intelligently with the environment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkv-_LqTeQA Yet another aspect is the ability to self-replicate. One promising approach is to create layers of materials, insulators, conductors, inductors, semi-conductors, etc., and cause them to fold into functional units. Origami Robots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M1zNIVGrjM Reducing size, increasing speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVYz7g-qLjs Improving materials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQXKgG7tsII This allows the use of a monomolecular sheet of silicon (silicene) all the properties we need to make the robots just described. Learning from living systems - Kinesin protein https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-uuk4Pr2i8 A kinesin protein that moves along a microtubule and carries a vesicle that interacts with that tubule in ways that change the direction of the kinesin protein is a fully functional molecular scale computer that is capable of self replicating its program and mechanism. Now proteins are made of amino acids which are 50,000x larger than silicon molecules. So, the ability to pattern silicene to replicate this functionality allows a 50,000 fold reduction in size and a 220x increase in speed. Learning from living systems - Microtuble based computing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXFFbxoHp3s About 28% of the materials of which the Earth, the Moon, Mars and the asteroids are made of are silicon. Just as carbon nanotubes and graphenes have astounding properties, so too do silicides and silicon nanotubes. The k 1s level electrons bind carbon atoms together with 284.2 electron volts. The same k 1s level electrons bind Silicon atoms together with 1,839 electron volts! Of course Silicon has several layers, but even here, its pretty strong! Silicon Binding Energy k 1s 1,839.00 eV L1 2s 149.70 eV L2 p1/2 99.82 eV L2 p3/2 99.42 eV So, using Atomic Force Microscopes in combination with supercomputers to model large arrays of atomic lattices https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mathematical-p...ation/maps1435 http://phys.org/news/2014-12-composi...rtual-lab.html http://phys.org/news/2014-05-superco...imulation.html 50 Pentium cores in the palm of your hand http://www.wired.com/2011/11/supercomputer-han/ Connected in a network with other cores http://gizmodo.com/intel-plans-to-pu...ter-1742966590 To evolve virtual combinations of origami folded silicon surfaces https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_8tNGKm87U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyVr7gdGEPE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgWQ-gPIvt4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXuR_soDnFo Produced with atomic-force-micrscopes that nano-assemble materials on a silicon wafer to achieve desired properties https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/h...pdf?sequence=2 http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10...96/15/6/064404 Honorable mentions (particularly in low-gee and zero gee environments) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_6p-1J551Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aZbJS6LZbs So, this is a programme which I have been working on for decades, and I am happy to report a number of researchers over that period to make significant progress along the lines I've envisioned. This has a few more years to run. However, in general we can say, that a solar powered self-replicating machine system that uses silicon will be operating any time now. With such a system we can organise the solar powered machine cells to cooperate to build larger machines that operate with solar derived fuels and processes. Yet more advanced systems operate with fusion/fission powered systems. A carbon based machine cell that uses graphene and carbon nanotubes is easily made from carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere using sunlight and water. 4 H2O + electricity --- 4 H2 + 2 O2 - electrolysis CO2 + 4 H2 --- CH4 + 2 H2O - Sabatier process CH4 + energy --- C + 2 H2 - Methane thermolysis 2 H2 + O2 --- 2 H2O + electricity - Oxidation The net reaction is CO2 + energy -- O2 + C No more than 95.4 MJ of energy must be collected to reduce a kilogram of carbon when extracting carbon from CO2 and H2O found in the air. A 230 micron diameter sphere shell of graphene that's 12 microns thick masses 3452 nanograms. It takes 329.4 millijoules to make one of these from CO2 and H2O in the air. A sphere 230 microns in diameter with an 80% efficient solar collector on its surface intercepts in full sunlight 119.7 millijoules of energy per hour. Thus, a cell replicates from air and sunlight in 2.75 hours. With 5.5 hours of sunlight available per day at most locations, cell mass increases by a factor of 4 each diurnal cycle. A doubling time of 12 hours on average. A spherical shell 12 microns thick and 230 microns in diameter consists of a layer of carbon 80 million atoms deep. Unfolded and layered 800,000 atoms deep onto a circle 5 mm in diameter, over 3000 functional cells are produced on a 300 mm diameter wafer after the layer folds. That's 10 milligrams of self replicating cells produced by direct synthesis using an atomic force microscope. Now, starting with 10 milligrams of cells and doubling every 12 hours in nature, means that we have 1 metric ton of cells operating in two weeks. We have ten billion metric tons of cells operating in five weeks. The carbon based cells are used to form a basis for silicon based cells. http://www.nature.com/news/graphene-...-debut-1.16839 All self-assemble into macroscopic machinery that processes solid rock into atoms using nuclear fuels found in rock, and assemble those atoms into finished machine cells that then assemble into any variety of products required by humanity. Ten billion tons of cells each massing 3,452 nanograms, implies 2.9x10^21 cells in 5.1 weeks of aerial replication. Floating in a layer 10 meters deep this is one cell every cubic inch. This is sufficient to produce 24 quadrillion watts of power on a continuous basis. This is sufficient to reduce 251.8 metric tons of carbon per second from the atmosphere eliminating 923.6 metric tons per second of CO2. This is sufficient to network information by optical communication between cells and to determine critical human needs, by segregating cells into various use classes along the lines described here. https://www.scribd.com/doc/77588930/Brand-New-World Global peace may be rapidly enforced by the elimination of around 100,000 articles of easily identified heavy military equipment in the hands of people everywhere. Basically rendering the devies inert will radically reduce the threats facing humanity today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...tary_equipment Beyond the major pieces of military hardware there are the explosives which power smaller weapons and bomb systems possible. Explosives usually have less potential energy than fuels, but their high rate of energy release produces a great blast pressure. TNT has a detonation velocity of 6,940 m/s compared to 1,680 m/s for the detonation of a pentane-air mixture, and the 0.34-m/s stoichiometric flame speed of gasoline combustion in air. The properties of the explosive indicate the class into which it falls. Destructive and productive uses are easily quantified going forward, the chemicals are easily idenfitied, and equally easily rendered inert where required. Classes of explosive can be excluded from action. This includes personal firearms used for personal protection as well as explosives used in mining and forming operations. All other uses are rendered inert. Ammonium nitrate-fuel oxide (ANFO) explosives Slurries and water gels Explosive emulsions ANFO versus emulsion explosives Low explosives High explosives Alternative technologies Industrial explosives Military explosives Tooling for producing companies can also be targeted simultaneously for easily reversible inactivation along with rendering existing stockpiles inert. The list below are major suppliers in the United States. All suppliers are easily identified and inactivated at the same time. Accurate Energetic Systems, LLC Apache Nitrogen Products, Inc Austin Powder Company BAE Systems Ordnance Systems CF Industries (formerly Terra Industries) Dyno Nobel Inc El Dorado Chemical Company Goex, Inc D.C. Guelich Explosives Company Mining Services International (MSI)--MAXAM International Nelson Brothers LLC Nitrochem LLC Orica USA Inc PCS Nitrogen, Inc Viking Explosives & Supply, Inc Fuels made from carbon-dioxide and water vapour are also manufactured on demand and delivered to end users for payment. The payments are processed by an optical meshnet to create a viable alternative to the present methods of payments, thus stabilising the economic systems of Earth. Once this is achieved, credit is then issued as needed to fully integrate growth into the existing skills and talents organised on Earth. Surveillance, security, and communications services are delivered emergently via optical meshnet as well. On this basis, insurance, contract settlement services, and conflict resolution services may also be added where appropriate. This further stabilises the economic system developed around alternative fuels and cryptocurrencies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2mGhfZCemg The use of self-replicating AI at this point is restricted to minimise its impact on human society and fully integrated the achievements of legacy culture, and permit developments that do not rely overly heavily on the new system. That is, the new system is used where the risk of use is less than the risk of continued use of the legacy system. In this way, any common mode failure of the existing system will not adversely impact humanity going forward. Once we are confident in the capacity of the new system to meet human needs on a larger scale, we can then expand use of the emergent system. So, we next turn to off-world development to gain this confidence for broader and richer use going forward. Now, a chemical rocket of the size and capacity of the Falcon Heavy rocket from SpaceX delivers 750 kg or more payloads to the asteroids in less than 18 months. Over 3 tons may be delivered to Mars in less than a year. Over 3 tons can be delivered to the moon in less than a week. This is sufficient with the existing technology to transforms these worlds in the ways already described in the previous article. Yet, over an 18 month period it is very likely that an aneutronic nuclear pulse rocket would be built on Earth and flown at a constant gee from Earth to these same locations, dispensing with the need to build the chemical booster system described above, and delivering results in less than 18 months. Once off-world colonies are established mechanically, they are first populated with plants and animals, and their progress is monitored over a three year period. At the same time, the At the end of this period, colonies are opened for settlement. Everyone is offered a free estate in a global city built at the beginning of this period in an agreeable location. I have looked at a region 730 km across south of Alice Springs in the Gilbert Desert in Australia, or expanding Dubai. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1oX9L6e6_Q https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8Vf2t2TGfM All those with an IQ of 115 and below (85% of humanity) will likely find such an offer irresistable as it offers them significant advantages not available to them in legacy culture. The economic utility of those who leave the work force in this way are replaced with robotics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU The individuals are offered the robots to replace them in their jobs, and the robots are paid by their employer. The money flows to the individuals who remain fully integrated with the existing economic system. The 'world city' will mimic the skill sets required for success in the off-world colonies, which will be absorbed in the habits of the life-styles of those inhabiting the world-city. Details will be adjusted on the colonies to maximise plant and animal health. Details will be adjusted in the world city(cities) to maximise human health and happiness. Within five years of completing the first world city, over 50,000 humans an hour will be transferring off-world, in security and confidence. As the numbers of people fall on Earth, the infrastructure dissolves into forms that resolve back to nature. Over the same period research to collect sunlight at the solar surface and convert it efficiently to positronium will be developed. So, by the time the Earth's population is reduced to fewer than 100 million persons, and there are over 14 billion people inhabiting nearly 10,000 colonies, we will have photonic star ships blasting to the 512 G-type stars within 100 light years of Earth. Light-years from Sol Number of G-type Stars 0 - 10 2 10 - 20 5 20 - 30 11 30 - 40 12 40 - 50 34 50 - 60 51 60 - 70 57 70 - 80 88 80 - 90 109 90 - 100 143 Total G Stars 512 The first ones arriving will have been sent out - accelerating at one gee for 4.77 years star time - 2.28 years ship time - and travelling at 98% light speed. The photons are absorbed, not reflected, so half the energy is converted to Positronium and stored on board. The stored positronium is then used to slow the ship when it comes within 3.9 light years of its target. To travel 100 light years requires 18.72 years of coast on board and a total ship board time of 23.28 years. 103.62 years star time is taken for the ship to travel that distance. The upshot of all this is that with suspended animation on board, in combination with time dilation, there is very little population growth among the moving population. By arranging things so that people depart for stars 100 light years distant, and rolling back in time one light year per year, we fill up space in a way that allows everyone to arrive at the stars at the same time. Starting with 14 billion people in the solar system, and exporting 100,000 people per hour off world, reduces population in the solar system to fewer than 1 billion in 18 years. So, this fills 240 G-type stars with 50 million people each. Beyond 18 years - or 30 years from today - the numbers fall below 1,520 per hour - due to low numbers, and high opportunities here on Earth and in the solar system. 1 billion divided by 10,000 colonies is only 100,000 persons per colony, the size of India, serviced by Utility Fog with super-human AI. 50 million persons per star system add up to 500 off-world colonies of comparable size and dimension, prior to the first stellar period. The second stellar period opens all stars up to explorers, and explorers once settled at their destination from the first epoch, are free to choose their destination freely, even Sol and Earth! But, they arrive 200 years after they leave if they choose that! In any event, surplus population rises as the sphere increases at near the speed of light, and the population falls for fifty years and rises for hundreds of years after that. Within 1,000 years of the start date, population in the sphere of human settlements approach the 1 billion level per G-type star. Well before that date cooperation between star systems will permit colliding massive iron-56 objects of particular shapes that cause the objects to compress to black hole densities. Controlling their charge, offsets, rotation and so forth, black hole surfaces may be engineered to achieve any of a variety of effects. Over time, we expect to be able to create arrays of engineered black holes that operate very much as engineered atoms, to create a new class of machinery that permits us to shape space time and gravity. A plane of micro-black holes that have something on the order of 60 The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Desktop Edition Volume I, Volume 1 By Richard P. Feynman, Robert B. Leighton, Matthew Sands Page 13-8 Formula (13.17) a = 2 * pi() * G * mu -- mu = a / (2 * pi() * G) = 21.67 billion kg/m2 --- a = 9.80655 m/s2 The Feynman Lectures on Physics, Desktop Edition Volume I, Volume 1 By Richard P. Feynman, Robert B. Leighton, Matthew Sands Page 34-11 Formula (34.24) F = ma = P / c --- P = 9.80655 * 21.67 * 10^9 * 300,000,000 = A sheet of material made with an array of microscopic black holes forms the floor of a vehicle. The acceleration is increased as zero point energy is tapped. At the same time neutrinos are emitted at a flux sufficient to accelerate the vehicle at tens hundreds thousands of gees - while the gravity forces are adjusted to counteract the inertial forces. Areal Density Acceleration Massenergy conversion rate 2.17 billion kg/m2 -- a= 0.1 gee -- 7.1 kg/sec 13.6 yr 12.7 yr 57.5% c 21.7 billion kg/m2 --- a=1.0 gee -- 708.4 kg/sec 5.9 yr 3.6 yr 95.0% c 216.7 billion kg/m2 -- a=10.0 gee -- 70,836.0 kg/sec 4.5 yr 272 days 99.9% c 2.17 trillion kg/m2 -- a=100.0 gee 7,083.6 metric ton/sec 4.3 yr 43 days 99.9999% c 21.7 trillion kg/m2 -- a=1,000.0 gee 708,359.8 metric ton/sec 4.3 yr 6 days ~100% c 216.7 trillion kg/m2 --- a=10,000 gee 70.8 million metric ton/sec 4.3 yr 18 hours ~100% c So, a ship with a self replicating array of micro-black holes that tap the zero point energy form a Tipler Time Cylinder before departing Sol, and accelerates at 10,000 gees - arriving anywhere in a few hours. The ship then comes back at a similar acceleration, with only a few hours passing on board ship. The ship then navigates the time cylinder back in time to coordinate its time with cosmic time. It takes only 40 hours and 20 minutes to fly to Andromeda 2,000,000 light years away, and another 40 hours and 20 minutes to return, at 10,000 gees. Of course upon arrival back at Sol, you're 4 million years in the future. No mind, since we can hop in a time cylinder set up before we left, to arrive back in our own time, 80 hours and 40 minutes after we departed so ship time matches up with star time. Radio signals or laser signals follow us through these pathways so that instantaneous communications may be maintained. The ergosphere around each supermassive black hole at the center of each galaxy, becomes a time portal to times far in the past and far far into the future. Thus humanity can spread in space and time, and remain in contact. In a quasi-steady state cosmos, under these conditions, density of humans becomes arbitrarily close to zero even though as they remain in intimate instantaneous contact. http://goo.gl/lzUVj8
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#14
March 29th 16, 12:32 PM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a baseon the moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj3_KqkI9Zo&app=desktop
We live in a QSSC. The cosmos is a version of Hilberts infinite hotel. We should develop the capacity to move beyond one room. Add the nuance of; (1) rooms that need repairing and replacement; (2) guests that have accidents between rooms; To determine how a naturally exponentially growing population must move to sustain continuous growth.
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#15
March 29th 16, 12:42 PM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon
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#16
March 30th 16, 04:03 AM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon
"JF Mezei" wrote in message
eb.com... On 2016-03-29 07:42, Jeff Findley wrote: Note that Bigelow Aerospace's BEAM module is slated to be delivered to ISS by Dragon in a few weeks. The inflatable tech which came out of the Transhab program still isn't "trusted" by many at NASA. A flight test at ISS should help with this. How well would a small inflatable test compared to a full size baloon where I assume stresses would be greater where the flexible material is attached to the fixed metal structure ? Possibly. One thing worth looking at. From the point of view of rips/holes, would the current size reproduce material stregth when some pebble hits it at a gazillion kmh ? Or would the skin have far greater stress and tendency to rip open in a large balloon when the same pebble hits it ? Think of this as basically two pieces of rip-stop nylon with foam in between. (That's NOT what it is, but for analogies sake). Basically the rip, if it starts, will stop pretty quickly. And the foam really absorbs most of the force of an impact. Also, the wbe site mentions "passively inflated". Does this mean they will open a valve on the CBM hatch to allow ISS cabin air to flow into the BEAM, or will BEAM launch with its own pressurized canister of air which a electronic valve will open to inflate the module ? Am puzzled at what frequency they will oppen the hatch and if there will be a "new car smell" associated with the fabric once inflated which may case NASA to really limit the amount of time the hatch remains open. I couldn't find details on the systems that are to be in the BEAM, apart from various sensors. Does the module come equipped with its own heaters ? If it is to run as a sepatate atmosphere, I assume they will have cold water piping fitted through the CBM for cooling ? NASA isn't good at this. Space Station Freedom went way over budget because everyone within NASA wanted to incorporate the latest in bleeding edge tech into the design NASA is primarily a research organisation with producing stuff as a side effect. SpaceX is primarily a "prioducing stuff" company with R&D as a required input. The later is more conducive to making a decision on a certain technology and going with it instead of constantly finding new ways of doing stuff. -- Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/ CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
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#17
March 30th 16, 05:06 AM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a baseon the moon
On Wednesday, March 30, 2016 at 12:42:53 AM UTC+13, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article om, says... Consider Transhab. last minute development that could have reduced costs of IOSS was refused. What if you start a Mars project and after a point, new developments/technologies that could make a big difference are refused ? I'm not sure Transhab would have saved any money. It would certainly have provided far more volume than a traditional, aluminum, HAB. In the end, there is no HAB module for ISS. If I remember correctly, much of what would have been in the HAB ended up in Node 3. A lot of this was penny pinching (like canceling the CAM module). In the end, it was cheaper to get ESA and the Italian Space Agency to build another node than it would have been to have Boeing build the HAB (similar to the LAB). Note that Bigelow Aerospace's BEAM module is slated to be delivered to ISS by Dragon in a few weeks. The inflatable tech which came out of the Transhab program still isn't "trusted" by many at NASA. A flight test at ISS should help with this. At one point, perhaps it is best to freeze the design and "make it so" and incorporate new tech into future expeditions. NASA isn't good at this. Space Station Freedom went way over budget because everyone within NASA wanted to incorporate the latest in bleeding edge tech into the design (e.g. solar dynamic power, 20 kHz AC power distribution system, and etc.). Even the toilet had to be a new design (instead of using a refinement of something proven like the Skylab toilet). Jeff -- All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone. These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends, employer, or any organization that I am a member of. Wet workshop is the idea of using a spent rocket stage as a makeshift space station. A liquid-fuel rocket primarily consists of two large, airtight fuel tanks. Fuel tanks could be retrofitted into the living quarters of a space station. A large rocket stage would reach a low Earth orbit and transform to living quarters. This makes for a cost-effective reuse of hardware that would otherwise have no further purpose Here are the specifications for the Falcon 9 second stage; Type--------------- Falcon 9 FT Stage 2 Length------------- 14.3m Diameter---------- 3.66m Inert Mass--------- 4,000kg Propellant Mass---- 103,500kg Fuel---------------- Rocket Propellant 1 Oxidizer------------ Liquid Oxygen LOX Mass--------- 72,400kg RP-1 Mass--------- 31,100kg LOX Tank---------- Monocoque RP-1 Tank--------- Monocoque Material----------- Aluminum-Lithium Guidance---------- Inertial Tank Pressurization Heated Helium Propulsion--------- 1 x Merlin 1D Vac + Engine Type-------- Gas Generator Propellant Feed---- Turbopump Thrust------------- 934kN (M1D+) Engine Dry Weight- 490kg Burn Time--------- 397s Specific Impulse---- 345s (Vacuum) Chamber Pressure-- 110 bar Expansion Ratio---- 117 Throttle Capability-- Yes Restart Capability--- Yes Ignition------------- TEA-TEB, Redundant Pitch, Yaw Control-- Gimbaled Engine Roll Control-------- Reaction Control System Shutdown---------- Commanded Shutdown Reaction Control S.- Cold-Gas Nitrogen Thrusters The oxygen tank is 65 cubic meters. A 10.2 meter long by 3.66 meter diameter (33.5 ft long x 12 ft diam) tank. Five levels totalling 565 square feet. This is sufficient volume for 12 people if staffed at the same density as a nuclear submarine. Compare this to Apollo's 6.2 cubic meter of volume or Skylab's 361 cubic meters of volume. Or the BA-330's 331 cubic meters of volume. The RP-1 tank of the Falcon upper stage is an additional 33 cubic meters with an added 225 square feet of 'floor space' on two levels, by fitting a 'man door' between the two tanks that is unsealed after the tank is empty. The floors are open frame structures that permit the free flow of propellants around them, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Eao9vKcQ_c This could also be a habitat module during a one way flight to Mars, or landed on the moon and used as a habitat there. With 16,000 kg injected into Lunar Free return trajectory, including the 4,000 kg stage. The 460 kg Merlin engine could be separated and packed in an inflatable TPS unit and returned to Earth for reuse. A 3,000 kg Dragon capsule, with 7554 kg of propellant, carries the capsule, and the stage to the lunar surface, along with 2,700 kg of return propellant and 1,800 kg of supplies and crew.
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#19
April 2nd 16, 07:58 AM
posted to sci.space.policy
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a baseon the moon
On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 6:02:54 AM UTC+13, wrote:
"The European Space Agency recently announced plans for an international moon base. The agency believes they could start building the complex in 20 years, with different countries focusing on their areas of expertise." See: http://www.techinsider.io/esa-intern...-agency-2016-3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-lq2ErdlXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXG9voQnw0E
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#20
April 3rd 16, 05:52 PM
posted to sci.space.policy,sci.astro,sci.physics,rec.arts.sf.science
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The European Space Agency just unveiled its plans to build a base on the moon
Actually we could start building it as soon as the Falcon Heavy becomes
operational: NASA scientists say we could colonise the Moon by 2022... for just $10 billion. What are we waiting for? http://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-sci...ust-10-billion SpaceX designed the Dragon V2 to be able to do Moon missions so don't need the expensive Orion capsule. And the Falcon Heavy especially with Merlin upgrades can do 100+ tons to LEO in two launches, sufficient for a manned lunar flight, so we don't need the expensive SLS. An unmanned test flight could even be done to test the capabilities of the Falcon Heavy on its first test flight, this or next year. Falcon Heavy to the Moon! Bob Clark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, nanotechnology can now fulfill its potential to revolutionize 21st-century technology, from the space elevator, to private, orbital launchers, to 'flying cars'. This crowdfunding campaign is to prove it: Nanotech: from air to space. https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/n...ce/x/13319568/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "bob haller" wrote in message ... On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 1:02:54 PM UTC-4, wrote: "The European Space Agency recently announced plans for an international moon base. The agency believes they could start building the complex in 20 years, with different countries focusing on their areas of expertise." See: http://www.techinsider.io/esa-intern...-agency-2016-3 elon musk will have a mars base way before that. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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