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recovered F-1 engines - which mission?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 26th 13, 12:55 AM posted to sci.space.history
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

On Mar 25, 10:57*am, Dean wrote:
On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:52:44 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
On Mar 24, 10:12*pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"


wrote:


"Jan Philips" *wrote in message


.. .


On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 18:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller


wrote:


Could they tell from the location?


Not EXACTLY, the area is littered with all sorts of debris from a


lifetime of launches.


Yes, but we are talking only about Saturn F-1s. *Is the location of


where each SI-C went down known accurately enough to tell which ones


have been found?


A 30 second search shows Apollo 15 was launched more southerly than previous


launches.


And since the launch depended on where the Moon was in its orbit I have to


guess there's some variation (on the scale of miles) between where the


impact points were, but I don't know how much stuff might drift and how


accurately the impact spot was tracked.


--


Greg D. Moore * * * * * * * * *http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/


CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net


theres a pretty photo of one of the stages impacting the ocean in a


rather spectacular fashion, taken by a fishing boat that probabky


shouldnt of been there


Where might this picture be?


i had a link to it a long time ago but lost it
  #12  
Old March 26th 13, 03:40 AM posted to sci.space.history
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

"Jan Philips" wrote in message
...

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:44:53 -0000, "GordonD"
wrote:

"Apollo - The Definitive Sourcebook" by Rich Orloff and David Harland has
the impact points. For instance Apollo 10's S-IC was 30.188 deg N, 74.207
deg W while Apollo 11's was 30.212N, 74.038W. I don't know how big an area
a
location to that accuracy would cover.


Those are pretty accurate locations. At the equator, 0.001 degree is
about 100 meters, and it is less than that at those locations - if
they are rounded properly and not converted from less-accurate minutes
and seconds.


And if they're actually accurate. i.e. we don't know the CEP. And that
could make a difference.





--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #14  
Old March 26th 13, 05:57 PM posted to sci.space.history
Rick Jones
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Posts: 685
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

Jan Philips wrote:
On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:44:53 -0000, "GordonD"
wrote:


"Apollo - The Definitive Sourcebook" by Rich Orloff and David
Harland has the impact points. For instance Apollo 10's S-IC was
30.188 deg N, 74.207 deg W while Apollo 11's was 30.212N,
74.038W. I don't know how big an area a location to that accuracy
would cover.


Those are pretty accurate locations. At the equator, 0.001 degree
is about 100 meters, and it is less than that at those locations -
if they are rounded properly and not converted from less-accurate
minutes and seconds.


Well, they are certainly precise. We might assume accuracy. The
timelords over in comp.protocols.time.ntp often point-out the
distinction between precision and accuracy when discussing time and I
suspect the same applies for location.

rick jones
--
A: Because it fouls the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
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  #15  
Old March 26th 13, 06:59 PM posted to sci.space.history
Dean
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Posts: 323
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

On Monday, March 25, 2013 7:55:55 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
On Mar 25, 10:57*am, Dean wrote:

On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:52:44 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:


On Mar 24, 10:12*pm, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"




wrote:




"Jan Philips" *wrote in message




.. .




On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 18:07:50 -0700 (PDT), bob haller




wrote:




Could they tell from the location?




Not EXACTLY, the area is littered with all sorts of debris from a




lifetime of launches.




Yes, but we are talking only about Saturn F-1s. *Is the location of




where each SI-C went down known accurately enough to tell which ones




have been found?




A 30 second search shows Apollo 15 was launched more southerly than previous




launches.




And since the launch depended on where the Moon was in its orbit I have to




guess there's some variation (on the scale of miles) between where the




impact points were, but I don't know how much stuff might drift and how




accurately the impact spot was tracked.




--




Greg D. Moore * * * * * * * * *http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/




CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses.http://www.quicr.net




theres a pretty photo of one of the stages impacting the ocean in a




rather spectacular fashion, taken by a fishing boat that probabky




shouldnt of been there




Where might this picture be?




i had a link to it a long time ago but lost it


So, it doesn't exist.
  #16  
Old March 26th 13, 10:08 PM posted to sci.space.history
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

"Rick Jones" wrote in message ...

Jan Philips wrote:
On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 11:44:53 -0000, "GordonD"
wrote:


"Apollo - The Definitive Sourcebook" by Rich Orloff and David
Harland has the impact points. For instance Apollo 10's S-IC was
30.188 deg N, 74.207 deg W while Apollo 11's was 30.212N,
74.038W. I don't know how big an area a location to that accuracy
would cover.


Those are pretty accurate locations. At the equator, 0.001 degree
is about 100 meters, and it is less than that at those locations -
if they are rounded properly and not converted from less-accurate
minutes and seconds.


Well, they are certainly precise. We might assume accuracy. The
timelords over in comp.protocols.time.ntp often point-out the
distinction between precision and accuracy when discussing time and I
suspect the same applies for location.


Exactly.

BTW, I did find:


http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apol...rth_Impact.htm


and

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=7086.0

I see Roger Balattie's name there. We need to get him back over here.


rick jones


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net
  #17  
Old March 26th 13, 10:12 PM posted to sci.space.history
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article 466b157b-d460-4b7f-8909-b6a816cc9875
, says...

On Mar 25, 10:57 am, Dean wrote:
On Monday, March 25, 2013 3:52:44 AM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:

theres a pretty photo of one of the stages impacting the ocean in a

rather spectacular fashion, taken by a fishing boat that probabky

shouldnt of been there

Where might this picture be?


i had a link to it a long time ago but lost it


Without actual evidence, you don't a claim. The area downrange was off
limits precisely because of the risk of a stage or debris impacting a
vessel. What you're asserting is that security wasn't good enough in
the late 60's and early 70's to prevent such a thing from happening.

As is said in many online forums: Pics, or it didn't happen.


I'll note I have heard this too from other sources (more reliable ones) and
am searching now.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=7086.0 does repeat the
claim but mentions a German freighter which rings a bell.

More on this:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/ind...?topic=28468.0

Including a link to NTRS.gov that.. well doesn't do much good right now.


Jeff


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #18  
Old March 27th 13, 05:55 AM posted to sci.space.history
Jan Philips
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Posts: 54
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 21:58:38 -0700, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Uh, 0.001 degrees is 3.6 seconds. Minutes and seconds are MORE
accurate than thousandths of a degree.


No. You can specify any number of digits. The problem is that
someone may have converted minutes and seconds into decimal degrees
and given more significant digits than is justified.
  #19  
Old March 27th 13, 06:00 AM posted to sci.space.history
Jan Philips
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Posts: 54
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

On Tue, 26 Mar 2013 17:08:55 -0400, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:

BTW, I did find:


http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apol...rth_Impact.htm


These aren't actual measurements of where they impacted. Quoting from
the bottom "Theoretical impacts compiled from Saturn V launch vehicle
flight evaluation reports, and Apollo/Saturn V postflight trajectory
reports."

This is what they calculated theoretically.

  #20  
Old March 27th 13, 06:00 AM posted to sci.space.history
Jan Philips
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Posts: 54
Default recovered F-1 engines - which mission?

On Mon, 25 Mar 2013 22:40:30 -0400, "Greg \(Strider\) Moore"
wrote:

And if they're actually accurate. i.e. we don't know the CEP.



What is CEP?
 




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