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#11
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
Chris Jones wrote:
So, they practiced communism and suffered (of course, they were also newcomers with strange ideas, which could also account for some failure). As they grew, they went to a private property system. Both seem eminently reasonable choices to me. But that's not what we celebrate at Thanksgiving, it's a harvest feast, And that harvest feast was brought to them - and you - thanks to the realization that collective farming (and virtually all other collectivized endeavors) sucks and privatization pays. What a holiday has become does not change what it originally was. Just as Christmas in actual fact has little to nothing to do with Christianity, but is a rip-off of pre-Christian Mithra-worship. -- Scott Lowther, Engineer Remove the obvious (capitalized) anti-spam gibberish from the reply-to e-mail address |
#12
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
Scott Lowther writes:
What a holiday has become does not change what it originally was. Just as Christmas in actual fact has little to nothing to do with Christianity, but is a rip-off of pre-Christian Mithra-worship. Yes, when we stick to facts, we find we agree on almost everything, maybe even everything. It's our political beliefs that differ. I'm sure you've noticed. |
#13
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
"Brian Thorn" wrote in message
... And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue it. Although Britain had eliminated it decades before. -- If you have had problems with Illinois Student Assistance Commission (ISAC), please contact shredder at bellsouth dot net. There may be a class-action lawsuit in the works. |
#14
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
"Scott Lowther" wrote in message
... Stuf4 wrote: How many of these Natives have even survived? More of 'em today than back then. Scott, this is just one more example of Stuffie's complete inability to do any research whatsoever before posting. The only difference between stuffie and hallerb is that stuffie at least makes the attempt to spell. Having spent several years surrounded by reservations and working side-by-side with *Indians*- the preferred name, by the way, as I was informed by an Indian that, if I was born an American, I'm also a *native American*- Stuffie's rant was nothing more than complete and absolute horse**** promoted by Indian-wannabes and those who have decided to feel guilty about something their ancestors did. Spend some time with real Indians and listen to what they *really* say before posting, Stuffie. But then, you won't be able to because you'd **** them off long before you'd have the opportunity to learn anything. -- If you have had problems with Illinois Student Assistance Commission (ISAC), please contact shredder at bellsouth dot net. There may be a class-action lawsuit in the works. |
#15
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
In article ,
Brian Thorn wrote: It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world. And when the US began the effort to eliminate slavery, Britain very nearly came down in support of the side that was trying to continue it. Indeed so, out of economic interests, assorted grievances with the USA, and the (erroneous) belief that the social system of the CSA was closer to that of Europe. But slavery was the big reason why they hesitated, delayed a decision, and eventually decided not to get involved. They'd have sided with the South instantly if there hadn't been that one big sore point. -- MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. | |
#16
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
In article ,
Scott Lowther wrote: It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world. Wow... way to be HORRIBLY wrong there, Henry. Slavery remained a common enoguh state of things until quite recently, and still goes on in many places. Name three countries where it's *legal*. Of course it goes on illegally, including (a little bit) in the US. But if (somewhat dim) memory serves, at the time the issue was decided in the US, the only other substantial country where slavery remained legal was Brazil, and it finally joined the civilized world in the 1880s. Unless, of course, you think that "the rest of the world" really only means European civilization... and even then you're wrong. I'm no math wiz, but I'm pretty sure 1865 came *before* 1945... You're going to have to explain why 1945 was so magic. If you're including servitude to governments as "slavery", bear in mind that most of the Allied troops who liberated Europe were conscripts. (Canada was the only substantial participant which made an effort to use only volunteers as combat troops, and that was motivated by touchy domestic political issues, not moral considerations.) I'm afraid I don't see any great turning point there... especially given some of the things that happened in Eastern Europe thereafter. -- MOST launched 30 June; first light, 29 July; 5arcsec | Henry Spencer pointing, 10 Sept; first science, early Oct; all well. | |
#17
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
From Scott Lowther:
Stuf4 wrote: I'd say that the bright student sees through the propaganda to realize that during such transfer of "title", there was no consent by the vast majority of those who were using the land at the time of "purchase". And nor was there need to. Just ask 'em... the Native Americans "had no concept of land ownership," as we're so often told. Consequently, they were not the owners of the land. I was very deliberate in choosing the phrase "using the land" (as opposed to "owning the land"). Curious that you see no need for consent in US takeover of the land. So why not just take over *all* the land? What's the point of the "reservations"? They could be loaded up on boats and shipped off to some place like Guantanamo. "Problem" "solved". ~ CT |
#18
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
From Chris Jones:
Scott Lowther writes: Stuf4 wrote: There's a strange irony in the US tradition of "Thanksgiving". Schoolkids are taught that this is a feast to commemorate how European settlers celebrated with the Natives. When in actual fact, it's a celebration of privatization over the geno-suicidal disaster that is communism. Where DO you get your actual facts? I think they must come to you out of thin air. I also question the statement: "More of 'em today than back then." It would be interesting to see how the percentage has changed over time. (Remember, the Native population started at 100%.) ~ CT |
#19
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
In article ,
Chris Jones writes: Scott Lowther writes: Chris Jones wrote: Scott Lowther writes: Stuf4 wrote: There's a strange irony in the US tradition of "Thanksgiving". Schoolkids are taught that this is a feast to commemorate how European settlers celebrated with the Natives. When in actual fact, it's a celebration of privatization over the geno-suicidal disaster that is communism. Where DO you get your actual facts? Here's a good preliminary source: http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?c...sgivin g+Hoax If you don't believe it, read Bradford's "Of Plimouth Plantation," and see what he has to say about how they increased crop production. Here's a hint: they ahda communal system, and were starving... then swtiched to privatization, and had plenty. Scott, Scott, Scott! I need no convincing that the Puritanical colonists of Plimouth Plantation were loons. Despite living so close to their disembarkation point, I, and almost all the current inhabitants of Massachusetts, have almost nothing in common with them besides whichever laws we choose to share (an ever decreasing, though I will admit not vanishing, amount). Whoa there, Hoss! The Plymouth Pilgrims may have been Loons, but they were most certainly _not_ Puritans! The Plymouth Pilgrims were fairly normal, fun loving English Folk, who had comitted teh Capital Crime (And it was a Capital Crime back then, you'd have your head cut off or be hung for it) of Not Belonging to the Church of England. (As an example of Fun-Loving, they spent the first couple of years living 100 to a room. And a lot of kids were born during that time. (No Cable TV, I'd say) One of the most important people in the colony was the Brewer and Cooper, John Alden. THey enjoyed all manner of frivolity, didn't mind owning nice stuff, and got along with everybody, (Including the Indians - Massasoit's tribe wasn't in the greatest position, locally - they'd lost a lot of population to disease, and their neighbors, the Peace (Peace is what we want and do have, and a piece of all that you have!) loving Pequods and Mohegans (Mohicans) were eyeing his terretory like a German gazing at Poland. Massasoit found that having a bunch of Large Guys With Guns as your friends was a very nice thing.) except the interloping, humorless, greedy filthy Puritans up to Massachusetts Bay (Boston Harbor). The Puritans were the Rats in the Wainscotting of teh Church of England. Their goal was to subvert the CoE, taking it over for their own foul gain. They viewed the Pilgrims with an equal level of loathing. The Family Journals make mention of the time that the Puritans decided to imprison John Alden on no charges whatsoever, other than the Heresy of Breathing. Miles Standish was tasked with going up to Boston and springing him. This was indeed done, although the Journals allude to the concern that Miles was possible losing his grip, as Boston wasn't razed to the ground, and the Puritans of Military Age weren't either captured or crippled. It turns out he'd been studying this thing called Diplomacy... So, they practiced communism and suffered (of course, they were also newcomers with strange ideas, which could also account for some failure). As they grew, they went to a private property system. Both seem eminently reasonable choices to me. But that's not what we celebrate at Thanksgiving, it's a harvest feast, and we give thanks we have enough to make it through the winter, and we also give thanks for all the other things that bless our lives. I put them in that order intentionally. Well, the 100 to a Room thing was a little strange, but not too much different than your average College Dormitory in the 1970s. One of the stranger ideas for that time was Representative Democracy. (As opposed to the way that the Brit Parliament was run at the time - M.P.s weeren't supposed to be representing their Boroughs, but the Empire as a whole. The average Englishman had no representation whatsoever. (Which leads us to that whole 1776 thing. I'm sure that will come up later.) That of course, never caught on. FOr those who are noodling about Space Colonies, adn the Dynamics thereof, the early days of the North American colonization would make a good study. -- Pete Stickney Descendant of the Carvers, Bradfords, Mullens, Aldens, and Dotys of Plymouth. |
#20
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Did you know you can buy land on the moon?
In article , Henry Spencer wrote:
In article , Scott Lowther wrote: It's not like slavery was something only the US thought of. They were just a bit slower to get rid of it than most of the rest of the world. Wow... way to be HORRIBLY wrong there, Henry. Slavery remained a common enoguh state of things until quite recently, and still goes on in many places. Name three countries where it's *legal*. Of course it goes on illegally, including (a little bit) in the US. But if (somewhat dim) memory serves, at the time the issue was decided in the US, the only other substantial country where slavery remained legal was Brazil, and it finally joined the civilized world in the 1880s. Of course, there was all the even stranger legislation in the ealry half of the c19th, when people were banning the trade, but not slavery, or vice versa. You're going to have to explain why 1945 was so magic. If you're including servitude to governments as "slavery", bear in mind that most of the Allied troops who liberated Europe were conscripts. (Canada was the only substantial participant which made an effort to use only volunteers as combat troops, and that was motivated by touchy domestic political issues, not moral considerations.) I'm afraid I don't see any great turning point there... especially given some of the things that happened in Eastern Europe thereafter. I believe he would be referring to the significant amounts of slave labour used in Germany. This was, mind, a reintroduction not a continuation... -- -Andrew Gray |
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