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#421
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From Painius:
Frankly, i believe it (the BB) raises more questions than it answers. And i find this unhealthy in a theory. It looks like the BB, as it exists today, is soon to be dramatically altered. And not soon enough for me. Out of curiosity Paine, what aspect(s) of the BB model do you find objectionable? Is it the "everything coming out of nothing" enigma? What i see as most needful in the present model is clarification of exactly *what* came out of the BB, carrying matter along for the ride. It is said that "space" or "spacetime" expanded out, yet paradoxically space is considered 'nothingness' or 'void'. This appears to be the biggest enigma of the present BB model. oc |
#422
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Hi oc no one in this space time can say space is nothingness(that would
mean Casmir plates are pushed together by nothing) We know of a false vacuum. We know that the big bang could be a fluctuation in the fabric of space and its waves. oc I give the force of gravity creating the compression force to create the fluctuation of space waves. I can using my theory to visualize gravity makes these waves into a quantum foam,and since it creates the bubbles of the foam makes them pop. We call this pop the big bang. It all began in an area as small or smaller than a Planck length Bert. |
#423
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Hi oc no one in this space time can say space is nothingness(that would
mean Casmir plates are pushed together by nothing) We know of a false vacuum. We know that the big bang could be a fluctuation in the fabric of space and its waves. oc I give the force of gravity creating the compression force to create the fluctuation of space waves. I can using my theory to visualize gravity makes these waves into a quantum foam,and since it creates the bubbles of the foam makes them pop. We call this pop the big bang. It all began in an area as small or smaller than a Planck length Bert. |
#424
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(snip)
I shall not deny the possibility of an infinite consciousness. I cannot accept its reality without evidence. You got any? What evidence? Do you doubt the reality of your own innermost infinite consciousness? I have read of it, but no, i have no basis from which to accept that there is such a thing as an infinite consciousness within me. Those who have supposedly reached this level of so-called enlightenment are apparently self-deluded. It is the epitome of hubris to think that humans are capable of anything more than what we can accomplish in our lifetimes... however long those lifetimes may be. It is sufficient to know that your consciousness has the reach even beyond the universe. What is beyond(!) universe? It is from this singular consciousness the whole universe 'seems' to originate as illusory. As such, there is no need of creation and evolution for such an illusory universe. And so, bigbang(or other) creation and evolution can neither be persued in science nor can they be taught as science in schools and colleges. We have only that which we can measure, Shastry. If we cannot measure it, then it has only a shadow of meaning. If it can be derived, then you are halfway "there." If it can be measured, then you have "arrived." You cannot depend only on the measurements, the nature of the universe has to be known at first to determine how far can they be depended upon. One can only derive a singularity using pure mathematics. Singularity is not derived it occurs at zero point. So the first half of our trek is done. The second half is trickier, for we must find a meaningful way to measure a singularity, and then we must find a singularity and measure it. Measurement of singularity? To accept the existence of a singularity without painstakingly measuring it to confirm its actual properties is to chase after wild geese, while the family stays at home and starves. How can anyone measure singularity? So just as it is meaningful to know the origins of the great river that sustains the population, it is meaningful for science to learn the origins of the universe. And it is natural for people to impart their ideas to students in hopes that one or more of them will build upon this knowledge and win victories for all humanity. One cannot win victories on delusory teachings. What victories can you bring to the world that may spring from your esoteric and mysterious singularity? What victories can you bring to the world which deludes you as to believe in (bigbang or other)creation and evolution? And so, wake up and smell the.....in creation and evolution! happy days and... starry starry nights! S S Shastry |
#425
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(snip)
I shall not deny the possibility of an infinite consciousness. I cannot accept its reality without evidence. You got any? What evidence? Do you doubt the reality of your own innermost infinite consciousness? I have read of it, but no, i have no basis from which to accept that there is such a thing as an infinite consciousness within me. Those who have supposedly reached this level of so-called enlightenment are apparently self-deluded. It is the epitome of hubris to think that humans are capable of anything more than what we can accomplish in our lifetimes... however long those lifetimes may be. It is sufficient to know that your consciousness has the reach even beyond the universe. What is beyond(!) universe? It is from this singular consciousness the whole universe 'seems' to originate as illusory. As such, there is no need of creation and evolution for such an illusory universe. And so, bigbang(or other) creation and evolution can neither be persued in science nor can they be taught as science in schools and colleges. We have only that which we can measure, Shastry. If we cannot measure it, then it has only a shadow of meaning. If it can be derived, then you are halfway "there." If it can be measured, then you have "arrived." You cannot depend only on the measurements, the nature of the universe has to be known at first to determine how far can they be depended upon. One can only derive a singularity using pure mathematics. Singularity is not derived it occurs at zero point. So the first half of our trek is done. The second half is trickier, for we must find a meaningful way to measure a singularity, and then we must find a singularity and measure it. Measurement of singularity? To accept the existence of a singularity without painstakingly measuring it to confirm its actual properties is to chase after wild geese, while the family stays at home and starves. How can anyone measure singularity? So just as it is meaningful to know the origins of the great river that sustains the population, it is meaningful for science to learn the origins of the universe. And it is natural for people to impart their ideas to students in hopes that one or more of them will build upon this knowledge and win victories for all humanity. One cannot win victories on delusory teachings. What victories can you bring to the world that may spring from your esoteric and mysterious singularity? What victories can you bring to the world which deludes you as to believe in (bigbang or other)creation and evolution? And so, wake up and smell the.....in creation and evolution! happy days and... starry starry nights! S S Shastry |
#426
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More on the illusory aspect please. I woke up a few days ago and it
occurred to me that the universe itself should not even exist. It makes no sense. Where in nature is there only one of anything, and if there are more "universi" where the hell are they? I haven't even got to the "why" yet. Crap. "Shrikantha S. Shastry" wrote in message om... (snip) I shall not deny the possibility of an infinite consciousness. I cannot accept its reality without evidence. You got any? What evidence? Do you doubt the reality of your own innermost infinite consciousness? I have read of it, but no, i have no basis from which to accept that there is such a thing as an infinite consciousness within me. Those who have supposedly reached this level of so-called enlightenment are apparently self-deluded. It is the epitome of hubris to think that humans are capable of anything more than what we can accomplish in our lifetimes... however long those lifetimes may be. It is sufficient to know that your consciousness has the reach even beyond the universe. What is beyond(!) universe? It is from this singular consciousness the whole universe 'seems' to originate as illusory. As such, there is no need of creation and evolution for such an illusory universe. And so, bigbang(or other) creation and evolution can neither be persued in science nor can they be taught as science in schools and colleges. We have only that which we can measure, Shastry. If we cannot measure it, then it has only a shadow of meaning. If it can be derived, then you are halfway "there." If it can be measured, then you have "arrived." You cannot depend only on the measurements, the nature of the universe has to be known at first to determine how far can they be depended upon. One can only derive a singularity using pure mathematics. Singularity is not derived it occurs at zero point. So the first half of our trek is done. The second half is trickier, for we must find a meaningful way to measure a singularity, and then we must find a singularity and measure it. Measurement of singularity? To accept the existence of a singularity without painstakingly measuring it to confirm its actual properties is to chase after wild geese, while the family stays at home and starves. How can anyone measure singularity? So just as it is meaningful to know the origins of the great river that sustains the population, it is meaningful for science to learn the origins of the universe. And it is natural for people to impart their ideas to students in hopes that one or more of them will build upon this knowledge and win victories for all humanity. One cannot win victories on delusory teachings. What victories can you bring to the world that may spring from your esoteric and mysterious singularity? What victories can you bring to the world which deludes you as to believe in (bigbang or other)creation and evolution? And so, wake up and smell the.....in creation and evolution! happy days and... starry starry nights! S S Shastry |
#427
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More on the illusory aspect please. I woke up a few days ago and it
occurred to me that the universe itself should not even exist. It makes no sense. Where in nature is there only one of anything, and if there are more "universi" where the hell are they? I haven't even got to the "why" yet. Crap. "Shrikantha S. Shastry" wrote in message om... (snip) I shall not deny the possibility of an infinite consciousness. I cannot accept its reality without evidence. You got any? What evidence? Do you doubt the reality of your own innermost infinite consciousness? I have read of it, but no, i have no basis from which to accept that there is such a thing as an infinite consciousness within me. Those who have supposedly reached this level of so-called enlightenment are apparently self-deluded. It is the epitome of hubris to think that humans are capable of anything more than what we can accomplish in our lifetimes... however long those lifetimes may be. It is sufficient to know that your consciousness has the reach even beyond the universe. What is beyond(!) universe? It is from this singular consciousness the whole universe 'seems' to originate as illusory. As such, there is no need of creation and evolution for such an illusory universe. And so, bigbang(or other) creation and evolution can neither be persued in science nor can they be taught as science in schools and colleges. We have only that which we can measure, Shastry. If we cannot measure it, then it has only a shadow of meaning. If it can be derived, then you are halfway "there." If it can be measured, then you have "arrived." You cannot depend only on the measurements, the nature of the universe has to be known at first to determine how far can they be depended upon. One can only derive a singularity using pure mathematics. Singularity is not derived it occurs at zero point. So the first half of our trek is done. The second half is trickier, for we must find a meaningful way to measure a singularity, and then we must find a singularity and measure it. Measurement of singularity? To accept the existence of a singularity without painstakingly measuring it to confirm its actual properties is to chase after wild geese, while the family stays at home and starves. How can anyone measure singularity? So just as it is meaningful to know the origins of the great river that sustains the population, it is meaningful for science to learn the origins of the universe. And it is natural for people to impart their ideas to students in hopes that one or more of them will build upon this knowledge and win victories for all humanity. One cannot win victories on delusory teachings. What victories can you bring to the world that may spring from your esoteric and mysterious singularity? What victories can you bring to the world which deludes you as to believe in (bigbang or other)creation and evolution? And so, wake up and smell the.....in creation and evolution! happy days and... starry starry nights! S S Shastry |
#428
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"Heather" wrote in message ...
More on the illusory aspect please. I woke up a few days ago and it occurred to me that the universe itself should not even exist. It makes no sense. Where in nature is there only one of anything, and if there are more "universi" where the hell are they? I haven't even got to the "why" yet. Crap. Universe(s) never exist. What exists is the singularity on which the illusory universe(s) merely appear. Obviously, there is no need of creation and evolution for such illusory universe(s). And so, how can they be taught as facts in schools and colleges? S S Shastry |
#429
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"Heather" wrote in message ...
More on the illusory aspect please. I woke up a few days ago and it occurred to me that the universe itself should not even exist. It makes no sense. Where in nature is there only one of anything, and if there are more "universi" where the hell are they? I haven't even got to the "why" yet. Crap. Universe(s) never exist. What exists is the singularity on which the illusory universe(s) merely appear. Obviously, there is no need of creation and evolution for such illusory universe(s). And so, how can they be taught as facts in schools and colleges? S S Shastry |
#430
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"Shrikantha S. Shastry" wrote...
in message om... . . . i have no basis from which to accept that there is such a thing as an infinite consciousness within me. Those who have supposedly reached this level of so-called enlightenment are apparently self-deluded. It is the epitome of hubris to think that humans are capable of anything more than what we can accomplish in our lifetimes... however long those lifetimes may be. It is sufficient to know that your consciousness has the reach even beyond the universe. What is beyond(!) universe? I disagree. It is *not* sufficient just to "know" this. If my consciousness has this power, this "reach" even beyond the universe, then knowing this must be *much* more than mere blind acceptance of this as fact. For once you go to try to prove this to yourself, you find out either that you have been temporarily delusional (and the truth snaps you out of it), or you don't find out a thing... you simply wind up in a mental health institution... or you commit suicide. So i must ask you to be very careful, Shastry, should you ever attempt to prove that you yourself have this power. Wouldn't want to lose you! It is from this singular consciousness the whole universe 'seems' to originate as illusory. As such, there is no need of creation and evolution for such an illusory universe. And so, bigbang(or other) creation and evolution can neither be persued in science nor can they be taught as science in schools and colleges. You seem very sure of yourself on this part. And cheers to you for your persistence. But as i have mentioned many times... this is all part of your personal delusion. No one, NOBODY on Earth knows the makeup of the real universe. We have not experienced it yet. We have only that which we can measure, Shastry. If we cannot measure it, then it has only a shadow of meaning. If it can be derived, then you are halfway "there." If it can be measured, then you have "arrived." You cannot depend only on the measurements, the nature of the universe has to be known at first to determine how far can they be depended upon. There may be more truth in this your statement than science would care to accept. However, *if* the alternative is to sit around all day praying and meditating, or "contemplating" my smelly belly button, then i'm afraid that i would prefer to do the measurements. One can only derive a singularity using pure mathematics. Singularity is not derived it occurs at zero point. A singularity most certainly *can* be derived by math and by science. This is how we originally theorized the existence of singularities in nature, which then led us to reverse time and in our minds envision the Big Bang origin of the universe. You, my friend, would have never even heard of the word "singularity" if it hadn't been for its origin in astronomy. And this brings me to an interesting point... If astronomy had never invented the term "singularity," what would you be calling it in this conversation? So the first half of our trek is done. The second half is trickier, for we must find a meaningful way to measure a singularity, and then we must find a singularity and measure it. Measurement of singularity? If this sounds odd to you, it is because we have not yet come up with a way to sense a singularity in nature. Yes, we have designed ways that we think allow us to find and measure things like neutron stars and black holes, but these are not technically singularities... they are natural objects that seem to be very similar... sort of "almost" singularities. Yet until we are able to firmly theorize what happened in the first few nanomoments of the Big Bang and before, we will stay in the dark where measurements of a real singularity are concerned. To accept the existence of a singularity without painstakingly measuring it to confirm its actual properties is to chase after wild geese, while the family stays at home and starves. How can anyone measure singularity? Our gut feeling is that we are on the right track when we study things like neutron stars and black holes. Closer studies of such natural "almost" singularities might shed light on what to look for in a real singularity. Frankly, it is my unscientific insistence and opinion that the search for a singularity in nature, and therefore the theory of a singularity erupting into a Big Bang type of creation, is as productive as a castrated bull. Such theorizing is just too cut and dried, and yet too complex and difficult to understand to be the natural way our universe came into being. So just as it is meaningful to know the origins of the great river that sustains the population, it is meaningful for science to learn the origins of the universe. And it is natural for people to impart their ideas to students in hopes that one or more of them will build upon this knowledge and win victories for all humanity. One cannot win victories on delusory teachings. Then, since victories *have* been won over the past centuries of human existence, we must conclude that these teachings are not delusory. We must conclude that the more we learn about what you are calling "illusory" and "delusory," the better equipped we are to fight and to win the battles of humanity. And if you are proposing that we sheeply accept that this is not true, then what is your alternative? What future actions are you suggesting that we members of humanity take to fall into this, your own version of how the universe works and how we must behave? What victories can you bring to the world that may spring from your esoteric and mysterious singularity? What victories can you bring to the world which deludes you as to believe in (bigbang or other)creation and evolution? And so, wake up and smell the.....in creation and evolution! S S Shastry These subjects, "big bangs" and in general, creation and evolution (religion and science) inject a "tension" into people. If nothing else, they compel people to think. And there is much good in thinking... i think. Don't you think? happy days and... starry starry nights! -- a Secret of the Universe... so please don't breathe a word of this-- the Moon above will smile perverse whene'er it sees true lovers kiss; (breathe not a single word of this!) Paine Ellsworth |
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