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A new start



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 6th 19, 07:28 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
palsing[_2_]
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Default A new start

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 5:03:21 PM UTC-8, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
palsing wrote:
[…] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Mike Collins wrote:
Nothing difficult about seeing Sirius in the daylight.
This is just plain not true for the *northern* hemisphere and
*realistic* observation conditions. As Henshaw wrote, too.


Well, I've seen Sirius at noon before, […]


When exactly, from where?

--
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From the Texas Star Party in the early 2000's, maybe 2001 or 2002 or 2003.... I attended every year back then. Why do you ask? Do you doubt me? I was observing with the great planetary nebula observer and comet hunter Doug Snyder, of Palominas, AZ, who left his big refractor running all night and all day, to keep the go-to function working flawlessly. We were jumping all over the sky looking ar bright objects in the early afternoon, perhaps 2 PM. We observed a bunch of bright objects, including Sirius, Saturn, Jupiter, and Venus. Sirius was in the southeast if I remember correctly... it was a long time ago. The objects were all fairly faint, except for Venus, but this was perhaps a 6" AP refractor, a really nice telescope.

Doug's finder scope was mounted on a big flat plate, perhaps 16" long, and once aligned on Venus, by sighting along the plate itself we were able to pick up Venus naked-eye, and it was easy to hold, just standing there under a blazing Sun with no optical aid whatsoever. But, if you looked away for even a second, you had no chance of reacquiring the planet unless you once again sighted along the plate. It was pretty amazing and at one point we had perhaps 6 or 8 people, all standing there at the same time, looking at Venus under a bright blue sky with just our own eyes.
  #12  
Old February 6th 19, 07:49 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Default A new start

On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 17:02:25 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 00:00:16 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
wrote:


Mike Collins wrote:
Nothing difficult about seeing Sirius in the daylight.


This is just plain not true for the *northern* hemisphere and
*realistic* observation conditions. As Henshaw wrote, too.


It's not _easy_, but it's perfectly doable without huge effort. I've
seen Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, and Sirius in full daylight at

38°
N. The latter, three times.


Naked eye or through a telescope?
  #13  
Old February 6th 19, 11:23 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default A new start

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 6:38:06 PM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 11:35:28 AM UTC, Mike Collins wrote:
Gerald Kelleher wrote:
When it is sunset it is also star rise and when is star set is also
sunrise with just that short period of dawn and twilight when it is neither.

Completely wrong! Sirius is visible long after sunrise and before sunset

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1984JBAA...94..221H

I knew Colin and he told me he eventually found he was not the first to see
Sirius in the daylight. An English female astronomer had reported this in
the 19th century.


People are surprised about the brexiteers and their disruptive
convictions but I am not, I just see more of the same for the last two
decades and especially when you affirmed that the stars would appear to
change position from left to right of the Sun due solely to the orbital
motion of the Earth -

https://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data...current_c3.gif

That timelapse, happening right now, is what we see minus daily rotation
including stellar circumpolar motion - a clear view of the inner solar
system inclusive of our orbital motion and presently the direct motion of
Mercury as it moves out from behind the central Sun until it reaches it
widest point before moving in the opposite direction.

Daylight when the Sun is in view and we look towards the inner solar
system and the sacred darkness when we look in the opposite direction
when the stars are visible represent a single package corresponding to
one rotation and a thousand rotations in a thousand daylight/darkness cycle.

Don't come to me with your Colin, this is the realm of people like
Copernicus and Galileo and their works.





Nothing difficult about seeing Sirius in the daylight. You lust need to
know where to look and have a clear sky. So everything you wrote about the
sun going down and the stars rising was wrong, Stars rise (or to be
accurate appear) to rise once
a sidereal day .


I equate 'sidereal day' with a flat Earther as the single package of the Sun in view from sunrise to sunset and the stars in view from sunset to sunrise each 24 hour day is in response to one rotation. There is a little poetic nuance with dawn and twilight where the perspective of the inner solar system turns out of sight and transitions to the celestial arena of stars seen in darkness but people of intelligence would know the difference.

The title of this thread is 'New Start' rather than useless arguments where the Royal Society guys tried to displace the Lat/Long system with a celestial sphere modelling thereby forcing people into a monstrosity that offers no chance of appreciating the change in position of the stars to the central Sun due solely to the orbital motion of the Earth -

https://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data...current_c3.gif


The motion of Mercury in that timelapse is as straightforward as the motion of Jupiter's satellites around their parent planet, however, not until a satellite freed itself from the Earth's rotation and its influences on observations, could we see the motion of the faster planets in all their glorious isolation around our parent star.

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap181123.html

Sirius was previously closer to the Sun in that image until it was entirely lost to the glare of the Sun a number of weeks earlier so genuine astronomers would simply refer to the SOHO/LASCO imaging and the amazing spectacle of the only acceptable motion of the stars in respect to the orbital motion of the Earth and a central Sun.

Congratulations to those who can see the benefits of extracting daily rotation from observations and allowing perspectives based on orbital motions between planets. The SOHO satellite imaging won't show the planets fall temporarily behind in view as the Earth overtakes them by virtue that those planets are in the background to the central Sun and we only see the illusory loops of the slower moving planets when we look out in darkness opposite to the central Sun.

Again, the only thing more unstable than brexiteer politicians are empirical academics who hate cooperation and are out of sync with the range and power of astronomical imaging and timelapse.









  #14  
Old February 6th 19, 12:16 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Mike Collins[_4_]
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Default A new start

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Mike Collins wrote:
Nothing difficult about seeing Sirius in the daylight.


This is just plain not true for the *northern* hemisphere and
*realistic* observation conditions. As Henshaw wrote, too.


Yet after he wrote this he told me of the woman who had done this from
England much earlier.


  #15  
Old February 6th 19, 02:01 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default A new start

If contributors here were astronomers in any sort of way it would be beyond exasperation, however, as contributors are not astronomers they can be dismissed and the insights left to stand for those who can comprehend the changes from the perspectives of the original Sun centred astronomers.

https://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data...current_c3.gif

In respect to the change in position of the stars, the evening/ morning descriptions attached to daily rotation perspectives vanish but the transition of the stars from left to right of the stationary Sun is retained as a consequence of the orbital motion of the Earth. The satellite imaging is an artificial version of a solar eclipse which removes the glare of the Sun and permits observers to view the changes as one seamless picture.

There is so much to comment on that the usual digressions by non astronomers look inane as they drift away to the mindless trivia they are accustomed to. The changes can only be cast in light of additions and adjustments to the original works of Copernicus is solving the motions for the slower moving planets and Galileo who first used the telescope to supplement the conclusions.

There are no confident or authoritative people here, just scared people looking to bite each other as some type of relief from a hell created by celestial sphere modelling.
  #16  
Old February 6th 19, 02:44 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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Default A new start

On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 8:04:12 PM UTC-5, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 00:00:16 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
wrote:
Mike Collins wrote:
Nothing difficult about seeing Sirius in the daylight.
This is just plain not true for the *northern* hemisphere and
*realistic* observation conditions. As Henshaw wrote, too.


It's not _easy_, but it's perfectly doable without huge effort. I've
seen Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, and Sirius in full daylight at 38°
N. The latter, three times.


Nobody claimed that it would be easy except Mike Collins, based on
superficial reading of his source, at best.

Nobody claimed that it would be impossible either.


It would depend on your definition of 'easy.' For someone interested or motivated the effort would not seem so much, for either a naked-eye or telescopic view.

  #17  
Old February 6th 19, 02:47 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
[email protected]
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Default A new start

On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 1:28:48 AM UTC-5, palsing wrote:
On Tuesday, February 5, 2019 at 5:03:21 PM UTC-8, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
palsing wrote:
[…] Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
Mike Collins wrote:
Nothing difficult about seeing Sirius in the daylight.
This is just plain not true for the *northern* hemisphere and
*realistic* observation conditions. As Henshaw wrote, too.

Well, I've seen Sirius at noon before, […]


When exactly, from where?

--
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.


From the Texas Star Party in the early 2000's, maybe 2001 or 2002 or 2003.... I attended every year back then. Why do you ask? Do you doubt me? I was observing with the great planetary nebula observer and comet hunter Doug Snyder, of Palominas, AZ, who left his big refractor running all night and all day, to keep the go-to function working flawlessly. We were jumping all over the sky looking ar bright objects in the early afternoon, perhaps 2 PM.. We observed a bunch of bright objects, including Sirius, Saturn, Jupiter, and Venus. Sirius was in the southeast if I remember correctly... it was a long time ago. The objects were all fairly faint, except for Venus, but this was perhaps a 6" AP refractor, a really nice telescope.

Doug's finder scope was mounted on a big flat plate, perhaps 16" long, and once aligned on Venus, by sighting along the plate itself we were able to pick up Venus naked-eye, and it was easy to hold, just standing there under a blazing Sun with no optical aid whatsoever. But, if you looked away for even a second, you had no chance of reacquiring the planet unless you once again sighted along the plate. It was pretty amazing and at one point we had perhaps 6 or 8 people, all standing there at the same time, looking at Venus under a bright blue sky with just our own eyes.


I have been able to 're-acquire a naked-eye Venus' without 'sighting along a plate.' Technique, experience and aptitude are probably important.

  #18  
Old February 6th 19, 03:25 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
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Posts: 10,007
Default A new start

On Wed, 06 Feb 2019 07:49:28 +0100, Paul Schlyter
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 17:02:25 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
On Wed, 6 Feb 2019 00:00:16 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn
wrote:


Mike Collins wrote:
Nothing difficult about seeing Sirius in the daylight.

This is just plain not true for the *northern* hemisphere and
*realistic* observation conditions. As Henshaw wrote, too.


It's not _easy_, but it's perfectly doable without huge effort. I've
seen Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, and Sirius in full daylight at

38°
N. The latter, three times.


Naked eye or through a telescope?


Naked eye. Through a telescope it really is easy, and you can see
dozens of stars in the daytime, not just Sirius.
  #19  
Old February 7th 19, 08:05 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Paul Schlyter[_3_]
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Posts: 1,344
Default A new start

On Wed, 06 Feb 2019 07:25:46 -0700, Chris L Peterson
wrote:
It's not _easy_, but it's perfectly doable without huge effort.

I've
seen Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, and Sirius in full daylight

at
38°
N. The latter, three times.



Naked eye or through a telescope?



Naked eye. Through a telescope it really is easy, and you can see
dozens of stars in the daytime, not just Sirius.


Can you see Mercury naked-eye in daytime too? After all, Mercury can
shine brighter than Saturn.

Canopus and Alfa Centauri ought be possible to see in daytime too.
Perhaps even Arcturus and Vega. If you can see Saturn...
  #20  
Old February 7th 19, 10:40 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default A new start

With the emergence of the SOHO/LASCO imaging, something belatedly discovered, the focus shifts to the inner solar system and the central Sun vs the outer solar system or the ability to artificiality screen out the Sun's glare vs the natural conditions as a location turns to view the outer solar system -

https://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data...current_c3.gif

It is clear from other contributions in this thread that daylight/darkness in rotational terms is the only thing involved in limited thinking whereas the timelapse above is a clear perspective of the inner solar system minus daily rotational effects. The inability to adjust to the higher perspective is not a point for complaint but just that - people who can't adapt don't need to be insulted and are best left to their own devices.

https://www.theplanetstoday.com/

It looks like it will be quiet for a while on the planetary front, apart from Mercury, as the Earth's orbital position to the central Sun and the other planets are out of range in the satellite timelapse for a number of months.

It is just a question of inserting normal language for a space age generation rather than the specialised lingo of celestial sphere enthusiasts and their identification/magnification exercise.



 




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