... OIL has Doubled in One Year! $120 bbl While NASA Dreams of Moon Rocks!

On May 6, 9:17 pm, "jonathan" wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...

There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial spacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Solar_Power_Exploratory_Research_a...

By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.

Jonathan

s

Don't you post under some other names?
http://www.celebrityhack.com/images/...-hairspray.jpg

eyeball wrote:
On May 6, 9:17 pm, "jonathan" wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.


That's how long since the "New sheriff Pelosi got to town" Remember her
telling us that she was going to ride herd on Bush and that Pelosi would
get gas prices down.....


It looks like Democrats couldn't live up to the promise.

Where the hell have you been for the past 60 years? Try that fossil
fuel inflation at 3200%

BTW, the moon's L1 is quite doable. Even China can set up camp within
the moon's L1. Would you care to explore my LSE-CM/ISS?
.. - Brad Guth


jonathan wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...


There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_S...l ogy_program


By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.



Jonathan

s

On Tue, 6 May 2008 21:17:23 -0400, "jonathan"
wrote:

snip

You need to reset your computers clock. It is 12 hours fast.

Casady

jonathan wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......


I am too! You got out of my killfile somehow.

Pat

Notice how the rich and powerful, as well as often are their brown-
nosed minions and otherwise pretend-atheist of Usenet, could care less
how spendy or bloody fossil fuel gets, or of how much secondary
inflation is taking place (especially on a global scale).

Notice how they have no viable alternatives that are not going to cost
us every bit as much if not more. Even their independent spook/mole
William Mook is at best a bipolar farce, exactly as though MI5/CIA and
DARPA orchestrated .

Perhaps their New World Order is coming sooner rather than later.
.. - Brad Guth


jonathan wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...


There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_S...l ogy_program


By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.



Jonathan

s

I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...


There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial space
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_S...l ogy_program


By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
....could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
....could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
...lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
...lack of backbone.



Jonathan

s

Pat Flannery wrote:

Pat
And mine, too. Ah well, back to killfile he goes.

On May 6, 6:17*pm, "jonathan" wrote:
I'M MAD AS HELL......

It's just insane. Oil was as low as $8 a barrel under Pres Clinton.
It increased by $60 a barrel just in the /last year/.

Let's just extrapolate that price increase out a few years, to...say...about the
time NASA gets to kick around a few more Moon Rocks in the year 2025
give or take ten?

I wonder how history will remember this time, when we had a choice between a
New Moon Base, or the Space Solar Power (SSP) program axed by President
Bush upon taking office.

This is what history will say I believe.

Everyone will be looking at our new shiny moon base much like we see
the ISS now. Doing /nothing/ except consume every available dollar just
to keep the thing flying. And they'll say it's clear the choice for the moon
over SSP was a result of two things.

The military: *seeking the 'high ground' in the missile defense race.

Corruption: *the big contractors preferring another "Bridge to Nowhere"
* * * * * * * * * *As they can promise NOTHING in return for the mega-bucks.
* * * * * * * * * *They haven't promised to cure anything, fix anything
* * * * * * * * * * or create anything beneficial to the taxpayers except
* * * * * * * * * *for the 'thing' itself Another ISS, existing only for the
* * * * * * * * * *sake of it. "Have Faith" The NASA administrator says...

There can be no other conclusion, that amidst a new global consensus
and awakening on the rapidly warming earth, we abandoned a visionary
long-term program, Space Solar Power, that could revolutionize
the future of this planet. A program that could not only address the
rapidly diminishing oil reserves, but also tackle greenhouse gasses
and global warming.

A single program, Space Solar Power, that could directly effect two of
greatest global threats. Not to mention all that flows from these
two threats, such as wars over oil, economic growth and national
security.

This was the program timeline when Bush canceled SSP

Space Solar Power Exploratory Research and Technology program (SERT)

* a.. 2005: ~100 kW, Free-flyer, demo-scale commercial space
* b.. 2010: ~100 kW Planetary Surface System, demo-scale, space exploration
* c.. 2015: ~10 MW Free-flyer, Transportation; Large demo, solar clipper
* d.. 2020: 1 GW Free-flyer, Full-scale solar power satellite commercial spacehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Solar_Power_Exploratory_Research_a....

By the time we build that shiny now Moon Base, The United States
...could've been building gigawatt class power satellites...we
...could have been on the threshold of becoming the next energy "Saudi Arabia".

Where ...America is the primary source of energy for the world.

But no, the military needs a new observation post, to target the Chinese.

Are we living in an era of denial, insanity or stupidity?

I can't think of any other reason for the choice we're making
to go back to the moon instead of using NASA not just to study
the atmosphere, but to be the agency responsible for ...improving it
as well.

Hey, you NASA guys want larger budgets??? SSP is the path to
long term public and Congressional support.

A Moon Base is a recipe for a much smaller-leaner NASA.
Stripped to the bones by a public angry that NASA's
..lack of foresight is exceeded only by it's
..lack of backbone.

Jonathan

s

A 5Gw SPS would have a mass close to 100X the ISS. If its cost were
scaled by the same measure, the price tag would exceed twelve trillion
dollars.

Thank you for the reference to sert. The proposal for a couple of
100Kw solar powered hall thrusters seems like a good way to develope
practical competitive space solar collectors which could well serve
science and give practical experience in the type of challenges SPSs
will have to deal with.

Increasing the number of robotic expeditions in the 10-20 ton range is
a practical way to develope the lower cost launch systems that are
necessary to even contemplate an SPS project.

On Tue, 6 May 2008 22:52:11 -0700 (PDT), in a place far, far away,
Totorkon made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:


A 5Gw SPS would have a mass close to 100X the ISS. If its cost were
scaled by the same measure, the price tag would exceed twelve trillion
dollars.

It would be absurd to assume that it would scale that way.