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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
Fourth one in: http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspace.htm
A giant compilation of reports (763 pages), translations and interviews with the German rocket scientists while under detention by the US Army in Garmish, Germany, circa 1945-1946.This covered virtually everty aspect of work at Peenemunde, from the design of the A-4 and the A-9 (including the closest I've been able to find to source documentation describing a manned A-9) to instrumentation, cannon shell designs and even mortar rounds. I've been sitting on this for more than a decade. Finally decided to scan it in and make it available. I'm surprised I've not seen it available before... it's a historically important compilation. Shows both what the Germans were working on, *and* it shows what the US Army had access to in the days right after the war. -- ------- The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake. - H.L. Mencken |
#2
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
On Jul 5, 12:12?am, Scott Lowther
wrote: Fourth one in: http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspace.htm A giant compilation of reports (763 pages), translations and interviews with the German rocket scientists while under detention by the US Army in Garmish, Germany, circa 1945-1946.This covered virtually everty aspect of work at Peenemunde, from the design of the A-4 and the A-9 (including the closest I've been able to find to source documentation describing a manned A-9) to instrumentation, cannon shell designs and even mortar rounds. I've been sitting on this for more than a decade. Finally decided to scan it in and make it available. I'm surprised I've not seen it available before... it's a historically important compilation. Shows both what the Germans were working on, *and* it shows what the US Army had access to in the days right after the war. -- ------- The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake. - H.L. Mencken Doesn't seem all that impressive Scott. Wind tunnels, missiles, projectiles, motors, EMW, and a bunch of interviews with the big names. Where is Heinrich Fleissner, BTW, and his work? Seems to be missing. Also you are misleading people into thinking that a compilation from 45-46 automatically is authoritative. Any classified material at Peenemunde would not be included in that compilation and you know it. The Intel guys would have removed sensitive material immediately and also would have held seperate "special" interrogations. The recent revelation of special Allied interrogator groups like P.O.Box 1142 make that compilation incomplete. You also falsely assume that the interrogations revealed everything. Not so. It just reveals what was not instantly classified and what information the Germans wanted to provide to keep a noose from around their neck. Some of the work intended for Peenemunde was also diverted near the end of the war. Peenemunde worked on the V-1 thru V-3 (the shells). But the Henschel V-4 design work was performed with a Zuse S-computer at a company factory while assembly of prototypes were completed at Misdroy instead of Peenemunde due to the war situation. Launch ramps aimed North against Sweden were constructed there as well in 1945. Furthermore, it is fairly safe to assume that once the Soviets got Peenemunde that the mysterious "Ghost Rockets" seen over Scandinavia came from there- secret weapons that were resumed and ones not listed in that compilation. At least some of those silver streaks in the sky had to be the longer range V-4s (mistaken in many accounts as probable extended range V-1s). Not really possible in the short timeframe due to a complete redesign of the missile for added fuel and more powerful engine and refined aerodynamics. V-4 was already suited for the job. Rob |
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
Rob Arndt wrote:
On Jul 5, 12:12?am, Scott Lowther wrote: Fourth one in: http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspace.htm A giant compilation of reports (763 pages), translations and interviews with the German rocket scientists while under detention by the US Army in Garmish, Germany, circa 1945-1946.This covered virtually everty aspect of work at Peenemunde, from the design of the A-4 and the A-9 (including the closest I've been able to find to source documentation describing a manned A-9) to instrumentation, cannon shell designs and even mortar rounds. I've been sitting on this for more than a decade. Finally decided to scan it in and make it available. I'm surprised I've not seen it available before... it's a historically important compilation. Shows both what the Germans were working on, *and* it shows what the US Army had access to in the days right after the war. -- ------- The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake. - H.L. Mencken Doesn't seem all that impressive Scott. That didn't take long. -- ------- The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake. - H.L. Mencken |
#4
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
On Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:14:04 GMT, Scott Lowther
wrote: The Dip**** who was Willingly Molested as a Child, Rob Arndt blathered: Doesn't seem all that impressive Scott. ....Boy, did you have to sleep on that response or what? That didn't take long. ....Nor was it impressive unto itself. Makes me wonder if slapping him upside the head with a baseball bat would stimulate his creativity any? OM -- ]=====================================[ ] OMBlog - http://www.io.com/~o_m/omworld [ ] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [ ] an obnoxious opinion in your day! [ ]=====================================[ |
#5
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
On Jul 5, 9:14 am, Scott Lowther
wrote: Rob Arndt wrote: On Jul 5, 12:12?am, Scott Lowther wrote: Fourth one in: http://www.up-ship.com/drawndoc/drawndocspace.htm A giant compilation of reports (763 pages), translations and interviews with the German rocket scientists while under detention by the US Army in Garmish, Germany, circa 1945-1946.This covered virtually everty aspect of work at Peenemunde, from the design of the A-4 and the A-9 (including the closest I've been able to find to source documentation describing a manned A-9) to instrumentation, cannon shell designs and even mortar rounds. I've been sitting on this for more than a decade. Finally decided to scan it in and make it available. I'm surprised I've not seen it available before... it's a historically important compilation. Shows both what the Germans were working on, *and* it shows what the US Army had access to in the days right after the war. -- ------- The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake. - H.L. Mencken Doesn't seem all that impressive Scott. That didn't take long. -- ------- The fact that I have no remedy for all the sorrows of the world is no reason for my accepting yours. It simply supports the strong probability that yours is a fake. - H.L. Mencken- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - All they can do is whine and bitch. About what you'd expect from a Third Reich pro-Zionest that sees nothing wrong with exterminating the innocent that can't otherwise afford to survive within such Old Testament rules, of always giving their government every last spare cent they've got, or else. Those good buddy Jews of Hitler's were really smart before, durring and after the war, and subsequently very well cared for and even having been made relatively rich at the demise of their own kind and many others. It's pretty much what history shows they do best, such as having perpetrated the entire cold war that's merely shifted its focus against Muslims, and thus still ongoing and still taking those innocent lives as we speak. Lost decades and trillions upon trillons of our hard earned loot blown is their ongoing status quo, and lo and behold it's only getting worse. - Brad Guth |
#6
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
Rob Arndt wrote: Furthermore, it is fairly safe to assume that once the Soviets got Peenemunde that the mysterious "Ghost Rockets" seen over Scandinavia came from there- secret weapons that were resumed and ones not listed in that compilation. At least some of those silver streaks in the sky had to be the longer range V-4s (mistaken in many accounts as probable extended range V-1s). Not really possible in the short timeframe due to a complete redesign of the missile for added fuel and more powerful engine and refined aerodynamics. V-4 was already suited for the job. Nope, no souped-up V-1s for the Soviets: http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz_6.html Except this one, of course: http://www.vectorsite.net/twcruz_6_02.png Since that V-4 worked so well, why didn't they put it into service? Pat Pat Rob |
#7
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
Since that V-4 worked so well, why didn't they put it into service? Pat Do you refer to the Soviets or the Germans? If Soviets, probably due to more advanced designs being developed postwar. If Germans, the weapon was barely being tested on Misdroy in 1945 before the war ended. It used a Pabst ramjet and RATO unit launcher instead of the chemical cylinder for steam launch, so it was more complicated than the V-1 in operation and Pabst ramjets were in short supply. V-4 was also more cylindrical and had canards. If you have seen the Ghost Rocket photos, most of them look like silver streaks and they definately came from across the Baltic. Where else do you propose that rocket weapons were being tested other than Peenemunde and Misdroy? They were not launched from New Mexico or California! Rob |
#8
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
Rob Arndt wrote: Since that V-4 worked so well, why didn't they put it into service? Pat Do you refer to the Soviets or the Germans? The Soviets If Soviets, probably due to more advanced designs being developed postwar. They didn't have anything up to the supposed "Horse and Rider" V-4 capability's up till the G-3 design study of 1949: http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/g3.htm. So if ghost rockets were buzzing Sweden in 1946, they were obviously something that predated the G-3, but apparently had very similar capabilities. Assuming such a thing existed, there was no reason to design the G-3, or the follow-on EKR: http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/ekr.htm Since they would have had a actual device of these capabilities several years before. If Germans, the weapon was barely being tested on Misdroy in 1945 before the war ended. It used a Pabst ramjet and RATO unit launcher instead of the chemical cylinder for steam launch, so it was more complicated than the V-1 in operation and Pabst ramjets were in short supply. I'll say! They were no doubt all being sequestered for Triebflugel and Ta-283 construction! AFAIK, the Pabst ramjet never used on something that was built to be operational. As to why they would be in "short supply"... that is a good question, as they were slightly more complex than a garbage can-style incinerator, and about the same as a Argus pulsejet. V-4 was also more cylindrical and had canards. And you're basing this on what documentation exactly? Let me guess; the Unicraft models kit, right?: http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/germ/v4/v4.htm And Unicraft models is basing it on the drawing on page 132 of Friedrich Georg's "Hitler's Siegeswaffen, Band 2 Star Wars 1947" and Friedrich Georg had never heard of the "Horse and Rider" till yours truly mentioned it to him several years ago, while digging up data on the Antipodal Bomber project for him. And that's why yours truly has a autographed copy of that book, and why I get mentioned and my faulty kerosene filled Nazi atomic bomb design shows up on 149 of it. But the design shown for the "Horse-And-Rider" in the book is pure speculation based on the concept of something ramjet powered being carried aloft by a V-2; I've never seen a drawing of it, and never pictured it looking even vaguely like that, but more like a Lippisch P13 ramjet fighter. Our Hermes II missile was probably a direct offshoot of the design: http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/hermesb1.htm If you have seen the Ghost Rocket photos, most of them look like silver streaks and they definately came from across the Baltic. Where else do you propose that rocket weapons were being tested other than Peenemunde and Misdroy? I suspect they were indeed flying something out over the ocean from up that ways, but I have doubts it was a "V-4" but more likely something far more mundane: flights of modified V-1s or flights of captured Me-262s or Ar-234s. Mention of magnesium possibly being used for the structure is made he http://www.project1947.com/gr/grchron1.htm (Which is about the most detailed description of the whole phenomena I've ever read.) And that would give a far better strength-to-weight ratio than the sheet-steel construction of the standard V-1, and therefore greater range. Pat |
#9
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"The Story Of Peenemunde, Or What Might Have Been"
On Jul 7, 5:08 am, Pat Flannery wrote:
Rob Arndt wrote: Since that V-4 worked so well, why didn't they put it into service? Pat I suspect they were indeed flying something out over the ocean from up that ways, but I have doubts it was a "V-4" but more likely something far more mundane: flights of modified V-1s or flights of captured Me-262s or Ar-234s. Mention of magnesium possibly being used for the structure is made hehttp://www.project1947.com/gr/grchron1.htm (Which is about the most detailed description of the whole phenomena I've ever read.) Magnesium is the only material that the Germans were self sufficient on as they have the ore though it takes a frightful amount of electricity. Witness the magnificent "elektron" magnesium alloy forgings that German fighter engines were suspended from. And that would give a far better strength-to-weight ratio than the sheet-steel construction of the standard V-1, and therefore greater range. Hitler went 'ballistic' when he heard of A4 had impacted upon sweden; firstly he had given express order that no A4s were to be fired, for fear of aggravating Sweden as that country was showing signs of joining the allies against Germany as a sort of token effort to get what it could. However the A4 that had been fired was in fact fired by the Wasserfall team whpo had been given some A4's to help test their guidance system and didn't know about the order. In the end Hitler calmed down and was pleased. Swedish fears of V1's and V2's helped keep them out of the war and the of course Wasserfall/A4 helped. Rumors of a "V4" helped there as well and some suggest it was a disinformation exercise; though a ramjet powered missile makes sense given the known vulnerability of the V1 was one reason for developing the V2. Disposable, 1 hour life, turbojets were under development at Porche by Mueller who had left Heinkel to double the range of the Fi.103 V improve its speed and simplify launches. A mid course "one time" update control system was also under development. V1's in any case carried a beacon to triangulate wind drift and impact points. Initially only 5% or so of missiles carried this but this was raised to nearly 50%: perhaps an indication that the Germans were becoming suspiciously aware of the double cross system. |
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