Question about inflation theory

Recently, new results were released from NASA's Wilkinson Microwave
Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) satellite, launched in 2001 to measure the
temperature of radiant heat left over from the Big Bang, which is the
theoretical beginning to the universe. The new WMAP observations,
announced at a NASA press conference today, reveal what the universe was
like in the first trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. From the
microwave background, researchers teased out a new signal called the
"polarization signal." According to the conclusions of this report, during
this growth spurt, a tiny region, likely no larger than a marble, grew in a
trillionth of a second to become larger than the visible universe. Well,
I'm confused. According to Einstein nothing can travel faster than the
speed of light. If that is true, how is it that the universe expanded from
the size of a marble to something large than the visible universe in a
trillionth of a second? I'm neither an astrophysicist nor a physicist,
which is why I'm asking this question here. And please be kind, as my
calculus is a little rusty these days. Any thoughts?

George

The basics of Inflation theory is that SPACE itself moves, so the
question about travelling Faster Than Light in Special Relativity does
not arise. The thought that I have though is that if FTL is possible
when expanding into empty space, but not possible at other times, must
mean that there is some entity which will either allow or prohibit FTL.

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/sci...0c1c2454c99cd1

Read my comments on this thread rather than those of other people. To
me Inflation must either mean an FTL particle - or a multdimensional
geometry which itself sets Inflation off.

Dear George:

"George" wrote in message
news:1BdTf.833195$x96.210782@attbi_s72...
Recently, new results were released from NASA's
Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP)
satellite, launched in 2001 to measure the
temperature of radiant heat left over from the Big
Bang, which is the theoretical beginning to the
universe. The new WMAP observations,
announced at a NASA press conference today,
reveal what the universe was like in the first
trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. From
the microwave background, researchers
teased out a new signal called the "polarization
signal." According to the conclusions of this
report, during this growth spurt, a tiny region,
likely no larger than a marble, grew in a trillionth of a
second to become larger than
the visible universe.

"... a trillion trillionth of a second"

Well, I'm confused. According to Einstein nothing
can travel faster than the speed of light.

Right. You can't apply enough energy to an object to get
anywhere near c.

If that is true, how is it that the universe
expanded from the size of a marble to
something large than the visible universe in
a trillionth of a second?

No explosion. No energy required. No massive particles involved
(since none of the "four forces" had congealed yet). Simply an
adjustment in the distance between all "bits" of energy.

I'm neither an astrophysicist nor a physicist, which is why
I'm asking this question here. And please
be kind, as my calculus is a little rusty these days.
Any thoughts?

It is what the data points to, couched in the Standard Model.
Stay tuned! More sights to be revealed.

I'd vote for Ernest Wittke building another EinsteinHoax page.

David A. Smith

a écrit :
The basics of Inflation theory is that SPACE itself moves

SPACE moves ????

Excuse me but...

WHERE would space move into ?????

I bet it would be into more space since MOVING means changing one
object's coordinates. SPACE itself can't move at all, since SPACE is not
an object at all, you are dreaming.

SPACE can't move.
TIME can't accelerate...


How much nonsense is possible to hear???

jacob

CeeBee a écrit :
The misunderstanding is that space itself expands. Everything inside the
universe seems to be bound to the lightspeed as a maximum, but "the
universe" itself (space) isn't bound by speed restrictions predicted by
theory. After all, according to what reference would you measure the
"speed" of space when it is expanding?


SPACE itself expands ?????

Sorry but INTO WHAT would space "expand" ????

I would bet that it would expand into... more space isn't it?
This is just nonsense.

But imagine for a moment that space is "expanding" faster than light, as
proposed by this wonderful "inflation" theory.

Since no object can go faster than light, NOTHING MOVES and all objects
in the universe have negative speed:

point a point b
object x --

Object "X" starts moving at some speed smaller than "c" to point b, say,
at 50 Km/sec. In one second object x has traveled 50 Km, but the
distance between a and b has increased by more than 300 000 Km since
space is "expanding".


This reasoning is valid FOR ANY POINT A AND B. Then, object X will NEVER
reach point b, nothing in the universe can move at all, the temperature
of the universe is below absolute zero.

Why?

At absolute zero objects do not move at all. But since space is
expanding, the speed of every object in this universe is negative (the
object is flying AWAY from all other objects in the universe)

All this is quite comic. Space is "expanding". Yeah.

And I am getting younger every day.

jacob

George Dishman a écrit :

Releativity says an object cannot travel through
space faster than the speed of light in vacuo,
but that doesn't stop the sapce between objects
expanding at a rate such that the distance between
them increases faster than that speed.


SPACE itself expands ?????

Sorry but INTO WHAT would space "expand" ????

I would bet that it would expand into... more space isn't it?
This is just nonsense.

But imagine for a moment that space is "expanding" faster than light, as
proposed by this wonderful "inflation" theory.
Since no object can go faster than light, NOTHING MOVES and all objects
in the universe have negative speed:

point a point b
object x --

Object "X" starts moving at some speed smaller than "c" to point b, say,
at 50 Km/sec. In one second object x has traveled 50 Km, but the
distance between a and b has increased by more than 300 000 Km since
space is "expanding".


This reasoning is valid FOR ANY POINT A AND B. Then, object X will NEVER
reach point b, nothing in the universe can move at all, the temperature
of the universe is below absolute zero.

Why?

At absolute zero objects do not move at all. But since space is
expanding, the speed of every object in this universe is negative (the
object is flying AWAY from all other objects in the universe)

All this is quite comic. Space is "expanding". Yeah.

And I am getting younger every day.

jacob

"George" wrote in message
news:1BdTf.833195$x96.210782@attbi_s72...
Recently, new results were released from NASA's Wilkinson Microwave
Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) satellite, launched in 2001 to measure the
temperature of radiant heat left over from the Big Bang, which is the
theoretical beginning to the universe. The new WMAP observations,
announced at a NASA press conference today, reveal what the universe was
like in the first trillionth of a second after the Big Bang. From the
microwave background, researchers teased out a new signal called the
"polarization signal." According to the conclusions of this report,
during this growth spurt, a tiny region, likely no larger than a marble,
grew in a trillionth of a second to become larger than the visible
universe. Well, I'm confused. According to Einstein nothing can travel
faster than the speed of light. If that is true, how is it that the
universe expanded from the size of a marble to something large than the
visible universe in a trillionth of a second?

Releativity says an object cannot travel through
space faster than the speed of light in vacuo,
but that doesn't stop the sapce between objects
expanding at a rate such that the distance between
them increases faster than that speed.

I'm neither an astrophysicist nor a physicist, which is why I'm asking
this question here. And please be kind, as my calculus is a little rusty
these days. Any thoughts?

This is probably the best introduction to the
subject around:

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm

HTH
George (D)

"jacob navia" ha scritto nel messaggio
...
a écrit :
The basics of Inflation theory is that SPACE itself moves

SPACE moves ????

Excuse me but...

WHERE would space move into ?????

I bet it would be into more space since MOVING means changing one
object's coordinates. SPACE itself can't move at all, since SPACE is not
an object at all, you are dreaming.

SPACE can't move.
TIME can't accelerate...


How much nonsense is possible to hear???

He meant Space expanding (not moving) faster than light.

Luigi Caselli

Dear jacob navia:

"jacob navia" wrote in message
...
George Dishman a écrit :

Releativity says an object cannot travel through
space faster than the speed of light in vacuo,
but that doesn't stop the sapce between objects
expanding at a rate such that the distance between
them increases faster than that speed.


SPACE itself expands ?????

Yes, as defined by international decree.

Sorry but INTO WHAT would space "expand" ????

NOT "into what", but "between what". Without matter/energy,
there is no space. Space is simply a spreadsheet on which the
laws of physics play out, and any value can be obtained.

I would bet that it would expand into... more
space isn't it? This is just nonsense.

Your question is nonsense, yes.

But imagine for a moment that space is "expanding"
faster than light, as proposed by this wonderful
"inflation" theory. Since no object can go faster than
light, NOTHING MOVES and all objects in the
universe have negative speed:

point a point b
object x --

Object "X" starts moving at some speed smaller
than "c" to point b, say, at 50 Km/sec. In one
second object x has traveled 50 Km, but the distance between a
and b has increased by more
than 300 000 Km since space is "expanding".

Right. And you perceive a problem, where? Note that we aren't
talking about motion, when we talk about either "inflation" or
"expansion".

Think instead of what inflation in an economy entails. When
there is inflation, what are the goods and services expanding
into? See? This question makes as much sense as your does.

....
All this is quite comic. Space is "expanding". Yeah.

And I am getting younger every day.

A truly hackneyed response.

Don't you get tired of living in a reality that you find entirely
comfortable? Don't you feel the least bit of regret at leaving
the host of facts that don't agree with your personal beliefs out
in the cold?

Where do *you* personally find wide-eyed wonder, jacob?

David A. Smith

"jacob navia" wrote in message
...
George Dishman a écrit :

Releativity says an object cannot travel through
space faster than the speed of light in vacuo,
but that doesn't stop the sapce between objects
expanding at a rate such that the distance between
them increases faster than that speed.


SPACE itself expands ?????

That is the common way of expressing it.

Sorry but INTO WHAT would space "expand" ????

It is not embedded in some more fundamental
manifold, space isn't "in" anything.

I would bet that it would expand into... more space isn't it?
This is just nonsense.

It is indeed.

But imagine for a moment that space is "expanding" faster than light, as
proposed by this wonderful "inflation" theory.
Since no object can go faster than light, NOTHING MOVES and all objects in
the universe have negative speed:

Don't confuse SR and GR, the limit is local.
Consider a galaxy we can see perhaps 10 billion
light years away. Space between us and it is
expanding so the distance is increasing at a
significant proportion of the speed of light.
However, light within that galaxy is moving
past its stars at the speed of light relative
to those stars in all directions.



point a point b
object x --

Object "X" starts moving at some speed smaller than "c" to point b, say,
at 50 Km/sec. In one second object x has traveled 50 Km, but the distance
between a and b has increased by more than 300 000 Km since space is
"expanding".


This reasoning is valid FOR ANY POINT A AND B.

The reasoning is valid only for objects sufficiently
far apart, the speed is proportional to the distance.

Then, object X will NEVER reach point b, ...

Correct, it is called a "horizon".

... nothing in the universe can move at all,

No, object x is still moving relative to a.

the temperature of the universe is below absolute zero.

Why?

At absolute zero objects do not move at all. But since space is expanding,
the speed of every object in this universe is negative (the object is
flying AWAY from all other objects in the universe)

All this is quite comic.

Indeed, your ideas are bizarre.

Space is "expanding". Yeah.

And I am getting younger every day.

Perhaps that's true, your infantile response
appears to confirm it.

George