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"President Must Answer to Downing Street Memo"



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 18th 05, 06:55 PM
Scott Lowther
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Rand Simberg wrote:

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:35:12 -0500, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the
phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:



"Giving aid and comfort to the enemy" used to be a crime.


I regret that fooling with my killfile let me see a post by Lowther,
but . . .

Going to war under knowingly false pretenses,



Why does this bizarre delusion persist



Simple: politics. The United States in a state of collapse is what the
Left likes best; so if they can't actually have that collpase, they'll
pretend that it's there in the hopes that they can depress everyone.
  #12  
Old June 18th 05, 08:09 PM
Rand Simberg
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On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:35:12 -0500, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the
phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

"Giving aid and comfort to the enemy" used to be a crime.


I regret that fooling with my killfile let me see a post by Lowther,
but . . .

Going to war under knowingly false pretenses,


Why does this bizarre delusion persist, in the wake of all of the
investigations that show otherwise?
  #13  
Old June 18th 05, 08:49 PM
Rand Simberg
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On 18 Jun 2005 09:36:00 -0700, in a place far, far away,
" made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Rand Simberg wrote:
On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 10:35:12 -0500, in a place far, far away, Herb
Schaltegger made the
phosphor on my monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Going to war under knowingly false pretenses,


Why does this bizarre delusion persist, in the wake of all of the
investigations that show otherwise?


In your mind only, it apparently exists because you won't take the time
to listen to the 6.5 minute audio available he

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6515

Among other things, McGovern states that, "Ye shall know the truth, and
the truth shall make you free," is chiseled into the stone of CIA
Headquarters.


McGovern is an anti-semitic nutcase, who thinks that the purpose of
the war was to allow Israel to take over the Middle East. I can see
why you like him.
  #14  
Old June 18th 05, 08:51 PM
Pat Flannery
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Scott Lowther wrote:


Indeed. If Bush gives in to the bleating retards who want the US to
abandon the war, then not only will he doom his presidency, but also
the future of America.

"Giving aid and comfort to the enemy" used to be a crime.




It is...in wartime...we haven't legally declared war on anyone yet; if
we had, then all those poor shmucks down at Guantanamo Bay would be POWs
and subject to their rights under the Geneva Conventions...and we
wouldn't want that, would we?

Pat
  #15  
Old June 18th 05, 09:24 PM
Rand Simberg
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On 18 Jun 2005 10:10:43 -0700, in a place far, far away,
" made the phosphor on my
monitor glow in such a way as to indicate that:

Among other things, McGovern states that, "Ye shall know the truth, and
the truth shall make you free," is chiseled into the stone of CIA
Headquarters.


McGovern is an anti-semitic nutcase, who thinks that the purpose of
the war was to allow Israel to take over the Middle East. I can see
why you like him.


We're all Americans, Rand, whether you like it or not.


I must have missed the post where I said otherwise. Though in fact,
there are many in this newsgroup, some of them highly respected, who
aren't Americans. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

I'll not waste
time defending my archived posts against your baseless insinuation.

I have many more Jewish friends than Jewish enemies. Furthermore, I've
seen nothing to indicate that your labeling of McGovern is in any way
correct.

If you want logic, I suggest you stick to it. Provide a reference.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...601570_pf.html

"The session took an awkward turn when witness Ray McGovern, a former
intelligence analyst, declared that the United States went to war in
Iraq for oil, Israel and military bases craved by administration
'neocons' so 'the United States and Israel could dominate that part of
the world.' He said that Israel should not be considered an ally and
that Bush was doing the bidding of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel
Sharon.

'Israel is not allowed to be brought up in polite conversation,'
McGovern said. 'The last time I did this, the previous director of
Central Intelligence called me anti-Semitic.' "

Gee, imagine that...
  #17  
Old June 18th 05, 10:02 PM
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Scott Lowther wrote:

Perfect summation of the political Left. "La-la-la-la I can't hear you
la-la-la..."


In terms of Challenger, that's ironic -- to say the least. Your last
three posts to this thread appear to consign everyone who differs with
you to "the Left."

It's a pity that you've never assigned the emphasis of a capital 'L' to
Challenger's left booster. Like so many others here, you've always
deemed only the right one worthy of carrying the Reagan/Bush torch.

Challenger's Ghost

  #18  
Old June 18th 05, 10:10 PM
John Doe
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Rand Simberg wrote:
No, they wouldn't. They're unlawful combatants. And they are being
treated according to Geneva despite that.



This from a citizen of the USA whose constitution grants the right to
all citizens to bear arms to defend their country.

Sorry folks, there are no "unlawful combattants". No matter how
justified the military intervention in Afghanistan was, Afghans had full
rights to defend their country against an invading military force.


The Bush regime just invented thsi phrase and trying to justify their
war crimes. Oh, and by the way, the USA constitution also grants legal
rights/due legal process to PEOPLE, not citizens. The people at
gantanamo, while being treated like animals, should have been given due
legal process by the USA, charged with a crime, provided with a proper
court (not some judicial military kangoroo court) and tried within
reasonable time.

The Bush regime managed to convince americans that because they were not
USA citizens, they didn't have any rights.

And if they were unlawful combattants, then the folks who had had roots
in the USA should have been treated the exact same way asn the others.
Legal rights are granted to people, not american citizens. And americans
were gullible enough to believe their government, the media in love with
the white house never wishing to contradict what the white house says,
and americans only wanting to hear the newas that want to hear, not the
news they need to hear.
  #19  
Old June 18th 05, 10:20 PM
Scott Hedrick
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"Herb Schaltegger" wrote in
message .com...
Going to war under knowingly false pretenses, wasting 1,700+ soldiers'
lives and about $300 billion, doubling the domestic price of fuel and
strangling the economy due to energy prices


You've been watching too much PBS. The US economy is in the best shape it's
been in years. *After* recent tax cuts, the government reached a new record
in tax receipts.

and federal deficits should
easily qualify as "high crimes and misdemeanors" under any reasonable
definition.


The idea that there is a "budget surplus", as long as we have a national
debt, is laughable. Watching those Congressional clowns talk about "applying
the surplus to the debt" would have been funny if it didn't involve lives.

A surplus exists only so long as, after the debts are paid off, you can
write a check that doesn't bounce.


  #20  
Old June 18th 05, 10:29 PM
Scott Hedrick
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"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
It is...in wartime...we haven't legally declared war on anyone yet; if
we had, then all those poor shmucks down at Guantanamo Bay would be POWs
and subject to their rights under the Geneva Conventions...and we
wouldn't want that, would we?


I have no lost love for those stuck in Gitmo. Still, we're supposed to be
the good guys, and one thing that separates the good guys from the bad guys
is that the good guys *don't break the rules* or hire others to break them
for us. If the rules are inconvenient, then change them, using proper
procedure, in the full light of public review. If the government ships
someone off to another country so that person can be interrogated under
torture, it's no different than if my government itself did the torture.

I don't have a real problem with torture- my problem is with my government
denying that the United States is responsible, and that my country agreed to
rules prohibiting it. Either break the Geneva Convention or follow it.

Part of the blame lies with those in Gitmo- if they want to fall under the
Geneva Convention, then they need to follow the rules as well, part of which
calls for fighting while wearing clearly identified *uniforms*. Still,
that's not enough for my government to justify it's actions, particularly to
American citizens, such as Padilla. Whether or not the little **** deserves
it, as a US citizen the government *owes him* certain things, such as a
speedy trial and the right to an attorney. Gitmo is a US military base,
which makes it US soil- claiming otherwise sets a dangerous precedent that
will come back to bite.


 




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