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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material
and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is in-plane near circular. Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission? -- Craig Fink Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @ |
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
On Apr 9, 12:21UTF16-FFFDam, Craig Fink wrote:
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is in-plane near circular. Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission? -- Craig Fink Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @ nope all the money goes to shuttle and shuttle replacement, science has little priority and even less money |
#3
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
On Apr 8, 10:21 pm, Craig Fink wrote:
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is in-plane near circular. Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission? -- Craig Fink Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @ That's an interesting thought. It's hard to believe no one has ever considered it, but I try to be well-read on space science, and I've never heard of a proposal to do that. Possibly it's felt that fly-bys have analyzed it sufficiently. Matt Bille |
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
In article ,
Craig Fink wrote: A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is in-plane near circular. Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission? Assuming you had a big enough and complex enough vehicle you could get to the neighborhood of Saturn and get the vehicle into the same orbit as ring particles, getting the piece of the ring particle might not be too difficult. But it would have to be analyzed there. Returning it to Earth in usable shape might be difficult for many reasons, one of them being that the current estimate of what the ring particles are come up with some sort of water-ammonia ice, and even returning an empty probe requires more energy than will be available. -- This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University. Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558 |
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
On Apr 9, 12:21 am, Craig Fink wrote:
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is in-plane near circular. Yes -- it's getting the probe into this circular orbit which is the problem. Escape velocity at the outer edge of the rings (120,000 km above Saturn's equator) is about 20 km/sec. Circular orbital velocity is 14 km/sec. So a return probe needs 6 km/sec delta-v to escape Saturn, at least the same amount to transfer from an interplanetary trajectory to circular Saturn orbit in the first place (repeated Titan flybys could help a little with either), then AT LEAST 5.5 km/sec delta-v to get back to Earth. Flat-out impossible with chemical rockets, and doable but very expensive with nuclear-powered ion propulsion. Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission? To the best of my knowledge no -- at least not seriously. |
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
Craig Fink wrote:
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is in-plane near circular. Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission? If the probe is in-plane near circular at 180 Mm from Saturn centre (the top of Saturn rings) it needs a delta v of about 6 km/s to get out of the Saturn system. That is a rather large delta v. And then you knead some more delta v to get to Earth. You can get some help by using gravity assists from Saturnian moons and you can use some fancy high ISP propulsion (ion drives or what not). But still we aren't talking about an easy mission here. Alain Fournier |
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
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#8
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
Herman Rubin wrote:
But it would have to be analyzed there. Returning it to Earth in usable shape might be difficult for many reasons, one of them being that the current estimate of what the ring particles are come up with some sort of water-ammonia ice, and even returning an empty probe requires more energy than will be available. Ideally, once the probe was in Saturn orbit near the rings, it would start from the outer edge and slowly work inwards to the inner edge, sampling and analyzing the ring material in multiple places as it moved, so that a detailed model of ring composition could be built up. Photography from inside the rings would really be something to see. Pat |
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
Alain Fournier wrote:
You can get some help by using gravity assists from Saturnian moons and you can use some fancy high ISP propulsion (ion drives or what not). But still we aren't talking about an easy mission here. Which brings up a interesting possibility; the gravity of the tiny moons located near and in the rings is very low, and the probe would be traveling in their orbital plane...so why not land the probe on one of them and sample its surface? Pat |
#10
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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?
Alain Fournier wrote:
With chemical rockets and without using gravity assists it would be a ridiculously monstrous mission. But with careful planing you can lose and gain almost all the delta v needed to get in and out of the Saturnian system with multiple gravity assists. Still it would be a very complex mission. Using, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Titan, Rhea, Tethys and Mimas, you can do the trip with little more energy than that needed to reach Venus. Unless you are lucky with the planetary alignment it would take a lot of time, but it could be done. This still sounds like something ion engines would be helpful for once you get near Saturn. The key for a successful sample return would be a very small and lightweight return capsule, but frankly I think it makes more sense to examine the samples in-situ from a overall spacecraft mass point of view. One thing the ion engines would allow you to do is maneuver to different areas of the rings at different orbital heights over the planet in a reasonable amount of time. Pat |
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