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Is SLS about Michoud ?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 27th 16, 12:19 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
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Posts: 2,307
Default Is SLS about Michoud ?

In article ,
says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

It would (at the least) require a special payload adapter. They
'cleverly' made Orion 0.02 meters bigger than the largest payload
adapter for a Delta IV. This is what I was referring to when I said
they deliberately designed it to NOT fit on existing launchers.


True, but they somehow made it fit on a Delta IV Heavy for its first
(unmanned) test flight. It's not a lightweight.


Except that wasn't a real system. Fake service module hard bolted to
the booster with a partial payload adaptor and separation system
custom built. Incomplete testing of the capsule, since it didn't
separate from the dummy service module (and the booster) until just
before reentry and never deployed its power system.


Yes, it wasn't a full-up capsule. But isn't it still amazing that both
SpaceX and Boeing have been able to design crewed capsules for ISS that
somehow manage to fit on launch vehicles far smaller than Delta IV
Heavy?

For "deep space" missions, Orion needs a HAB anyway, so mission duration
isn't really something that needs to be all that long. I'm sure they'll
*make* it do more, but it really ought to be just a "taxi" to get to
whatever set of hardware is needed for the actual "deep space" mission.

Jeff
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  #2  
Old August 27th 16, 02:46 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 752
Default Is SLS about Michoud ?

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

It would (at the least) require a special payload adapter. They
'cleverly' made Orion 0.02 meters bigger than the largest payload
adapter for a Delta IV. This is what I was referring to when I said
they deliberately designed it to NOT fit on existing launchers.

True, but they somehow made it fit on a Delta IV Heavy for its first
(unmanned) test flight. It's not a lightweight.


Except that wasn't a real system. Fake service module hard bolted to
the booster with a partial payload adaptor and separation system
custom built. Incomplete testing of the capsule, since it didn't
separate from the dummy service module (and the booster) until just
before reentry and never deployed its power system.


Yes, it wasn't a full-up capsule. But isn't it still amazing that both
SpaceX and Boeing have been able to design crewed capsules for ISS that
somehow manage to fit on launch vehicles far smaller than Delta IV
Heavy?

For "deep space" missions, Orion needs a HAB anyway, so mission duration
isn't really something that needs to be all that long. I'm sure they'll
*make* it do more, but it really ought to be just a "taxi" to get to
whatever set of hardware is needed for the actual "deep space" mission.


Yeah. I mean there's a few things "Orion" needs over CST-100 or Dragon (like
a heftier heat shield) but I'd trust Boeing or SpaceX to be able to upgrade
their craft far cheaper than building an Orion.

Call me cynical but I'd argue Boeing and SpaceX focused on designing the
craft for the mission, and Orion is based on designing the mission for the
craft.


Jeff


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #3  
Old August 27th 16, 05:24 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
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Posts: 10,018
Default Is SLS about Michoud ?

"Greg \(Strider\) Moore" wrote:

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

Jeff Findley wrote:

In article ,
says...

It would (at the least) require a special payload adapter. They
'cleverly' made Orion 0.02 meters bigger than the largest payload
adapter for a Delta IV. This is what I was referring to when I said
they deliberately designed it to NOT fit on existing launchers.

True, but they somehow made it fit on a Delta IV Heavy for its first
(unmanned) test flight. It's not a lightweight.


Except that wasn't a real system. Fake service module hard bolted to
the booster with a partial payload adaptor and separation system
custom built. Incomplete testing of the capsule, since it didn't
separate from the dummy service module (and the booster) until just
before reentry and never deployed its power system.


Yes, it wasn't a full-up capsule. But isn't it still amazing that both
SpaceX and Boeing have been able to design crewed capsules for ISS that
somehow manage to fit on launch vehicles far smaller than Delta IV
Heavy?

For "deep space" missions, Orion needs a HAB anyway, so mission duration
isn't really something that needs to be all that long. I'm sure they'll
*make* it do more, but it really ought to be just a "taxi" to get to
whatever set of hardware is needed for the actual "deep space" mission.


Yeah. I mean there's a few things "Orion" needs over CST-100 or Dragon (like
a heftier heat shield) but I'd trust Boeing or SpaceX to be able to upgrade
their craft far cheaper than building an Orion.


I'm not sure SpaceX needs to 'upgrade' anything. I think their heat
shield is probably at least as capable as Orion's.


--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
  #4  
Old August 28th 16, 08:59 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default Is SLS about Michoud ?

JF Mezei wrote:

Question:

Say you have an expedition ship to Mars.

That ship can't de-orbit and land at Mars or Earth.

So you obviously need landing crafts at both ends (and a laucher on mars
to return to expedition ship).

Since the return to earth craft will be needed only at the very end and
be useless for rest of the journey, is there a point in carrying it all
the way from Earth to Mars and from Mars back to earth ?

Considering with experiemces with LEM/Apollo, and will ISS with many
ships going there, would it be sufficiently technically and politically
acceptable to send a Mars expedition out without an earth landing
capsule, and only have it rendez-vous upon their return to earth orbit
(elliptical or circular).

This would save on having to carry otherwise useless mass for 99% of
mission, and get a "fresh" re-entry ship upon return that would be
undamaged from possible micro meteorite strikes, sun's radiation and aging.


The old saying is that Earth Orbit is halfway to anywhere, so it's
probably a wash whether you take it with you to Mars and back or
whether you send it back down to Earth and get a new one when you get
back.


If earth rendez-vous on the return trip is possible, then design of
re-entry capsule become much closer to that of Dragon/Shuttle than of
Orion in terms of heat shields etc.


Why?


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
 




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