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60mm refractors are good



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 1st 17, 06:38 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default 60mm refractors are good

For all of you whom Santa brought 60mm refractors for Christmas, time to visit your local astronomy clubs, en masse, and get useful advice on how to use those scopes, if you or your kids are new to the hobby.

Those with "GoTo" telescopes are also strongly encouraged to attend.

Plenty to see up there in January! First quarter Moon later this week.

---

Clear skies.

  #2  
Old January 2nd 17, 09:34 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Sunday, 1 January 2017 18:38:35 UTC+1, wrote:
For all of you whom Santa brought 60mm refractors for Christmas, time to visit your local astronomy clubs, en masse, and get useful advice on how to use those scopes, if you or your kids are new to the hobby.

Those with "GoTo" telescopes are also strongly encouraged to attend.

Plenty to see up there in January! First quarter Moon later this week.

---

Clear skies.


If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY equatorials.

They certainly make enough of the present TOTAL junk to suggest there is a large enough market. It just needs some greedy Chinese manufacturer to throw his present designers off the factory roof. Or have them jump out of crippling shame!

Where are the commercial, offset, counterbalanced, Berry-style forks? Fitted with dirt cheap [friction] bearings instead of the absolutely worthless, skinny axles and stupid chromed castings and floppy counterweights and no damned friction at all!

Small refractor mountings are now infinitely worse than 100 years ago. This is unforgivable, commercial suicide! Particularly when home-made, offset-forks with Dobsonian bearings have been around for literally decades! I made one myself back in the early 1980s.

Nobody questions Commercial Dobsonian mountings for reflectors any more. Why the deliberate commercial blindness for altazimuth refractor mountings? With these well proven methods of support and their silky smooth, stay-put bearings?

Isn't there one single enterprising, US telescope outlet willing to have a load of Berry offset forks made? Slave-driven China could make one for literally peanuts for a decent 70mm OTA like the Bresser Skylux OTA!

Scrap the flimsy and crappy, tubular tripods and use well spaced, double wooden legs for a bit of solid stability.

It seems ANYONE can make crappy mountings in China. Is there some suicidal genetic streak in their producing the same total crap all the time, every time for literally decades?

Isn't there one single Chinese designer who has actually read about the Berry offset fork? Some US amateurs have hung their multi-thousand dollar, large aperture APOs on these simple plywood forks. And enjoyed every moment of the superb support these simple mounts offer. Where is the nicely finished, commercial version? Polished, carbon fiber, sandwich plates, anybody?

If small, Chinese, telescope mountings were cars we'd still be riding wooden chariots with planked, wooden wheels and pulled by oxen! But at least the axles pins would be shiny chrome!
  #3  
Old January 2nd 17, 10:29 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
StarDust
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Sunday, January 1, 2017 at 9:38:35 AM UTC-8, wrote:
For all of you whom Santa brought 60mm refractors for Christmas, time to visit your local astronomy clubs, en masse, and get useful advice on how to use those scopes, if you or your kids are new to the hobby.

Those with "GoTo" telescopes are also strongly encouraged to attend.

Plenty to see up there in January! First quarter Moon later this week.

---

Clear skies.


Done some solar observation with 60 mm refractor. Made a Baader solar filter for it. It was very nice, sun spots were sharp!
60 mm is OK for planets or other bright objects and terrestrial seeing.
  #4  
Old January 2nd 17, 01:50 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 3:34:12 AM UTC-5, Chris.B wrote:
On Sunday, 1 January 2017 18:38:35 UTC+1, wrote:
For all of you whom Santa brought 60mm refractors for Christmas, time to visit your local astronomy clubs, en masse, and get useful advice on how to use those scopes, if you or your kids are new to the hobby.

Those with "GoTo" telescopes are also strongly encouraged to attend.

Plenty to see up there in January! First quarter Moon later this week.

---

Clear skies.


If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small
refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY equatorials.

They certainly make enough of the present TOTAL junk to suggest there is a
large enough market.


If large numbers of people wanted to spend $$$ on telescopes that meet your standards, then they would already be doing so.

Where are the commercial, offset, counterbalanced, Berry-style forks?


Why isn't your factory making them?





  #5  
Old January 2nd 17, 02:08 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Monday, 2 January 2017 13:50:32 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 3:34:12 AM UTC-5, Chris.B wrote:
On Sunday, 1 January 2017 18:38:35 UTC+1, wrote:
For all of you whom Santa brought 60mm refractors for Christmas, time to visit your local astronomy clubs, en masse, and get useful advice on how to use those scopes, if you or your kids are new to the hobby.

Those with "GoTo" telescopes are also strongly encouraged to attend.

Plenty to see up there in January! First quarter Moon later this week.

---

Clear skies.


If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small
refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY equatorials.

They certainly make enough of the present TOTAL junk to suggest there is a
large enough market.


If large numbers of people wanted to spend $$$ on telescopes that meet your standards, then they would already be doing so.

Where are the commercial, offset, counterbalanced, Berry-style forks?


Why isn't your factory making them?


Because I am not set up to make anything in bulk and long past retirement anyway.
My suggestion is not to make the mountings more expensive than the present equatorial CRAP.
The idea is to use mass production to make stable, Push-to GPS altazimuths for refractors affordable.
Perhaps with the help of tablets, mobile phones or popular, free programs like Stellarium.
Sometime, down the road, it might be possible to have Goto as well as Push-to.
But anyone can follow rising 'beep' as they home in on a popular object.
Absolutely no need for a massive star catalogue if they are all invisible to a small telescope.
Stand-alone GPS Loggers can be had for as little as $20 so the GPS aspect is already, highly affordable.

Stop arguing and be constructive for once in your life.
  #6  
Old January 2nd 17, 02:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 8:08:31 AM UTC-5, Chris.B wrote:
On Monday, 2 January 2017 13:50:32 UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 3:34:12 AM UTC-5, Chris.B wrote:
On Sunday, 1 January 2017 18:38:35 UTC+1, wrote:
For all of you whom Santa brought 60mm refractors for Christmas, time to visit your local astronomy clubs, en masse, and get useful advice on how to use those scopes, if you or your kids are new to the hobby.

Those with "GoTo" telescopes are also strongly encouraged to attend.

Plenty to see up there in January! First quarter Moon later this week.

---

Clear skies.

If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small
refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY equatorials.

They certainly make enough of the present TOTAL junk to suggest there is a
large enough market.


If large numbers of people wanted to spend $$$ on telescopes that meet your standards, then they would already be doing so.

Where are the commercial, offset, counterbalanced, Berry-style forks?


Why isn't your factory making them?


Because I am not set up to make anything in bulk and long past retirement anyway.


Well then, you'll just have to accept the market the way it is and stop criticizing others for not behaving the way you wish.

  #7  
Old January 2nd 17, 03:01 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:34:12 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:

If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small
refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY
equatorials.


But if you want to take a long-exposure photograph, you need an equatorial.

John Savard

  #8  
Old January 2nd 17, 03:11 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 9:01:45 AM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:34:12 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:

If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small
refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY
equatorials.


But if you want to take a long-exposure photograph, you need an equatorial.

John Savard


We don't have, and won't get, a definition of "CRAPPY equatorial," yet engaged discussion can't proceed unless we do.

Are you looking forward to the onslaught of new 60mm and GoTo scope recipients at your club? Isn't GoTo supposed to come with tech support from the vendor?

  #9  
Old January 2nd 17, 06:46 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Monday, 2 January 2017 15:01:45 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:34:12 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:

If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small
refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY
equatorials.


But if you want to take a long-exposure photograph, you need an equatorial.

John Savard


Those who wish to engage in imaging will need a far better equatorial than that supplied with my [optically useful] Bresser Skylux.
It has no drive motor for a start and manual steering would excite every node of its highly flexible, stumpy tripod and ridiculous mounting.
The multi-task effort that went into casting, plating and machining the Bresser mounting could have provided a far better altazimuth and even a far more useful tripod.

How difficult can it be to make an offset fork with GPS for location and orientation?
Now apply sensors to read the altitude and azimuth positions.
The user selects a target and the pushes the telescope as a sound rises and falls in frequency.
The closer the telescope is pointed to the target object the higher the pitch.

Hey presto and Abracadabra! Push-to is already possible using a mobile phone with App attached to the telescope.
Vastly more people already own mobile telephones than own small refractors on crappy equatorial mountings.
So, in practice, the telescope owner needs only a stable mounting which actually holds the telescope STEADY enough to see everything the telescope optics can usefully offer.

I submit that the badly required stability could be most easily be provided by a plywood, offset fork mounting on a sturdy, well designed wooden tripod with well triangulated legs.
BUT! It seems that the entire might of the Chinese, American, Asian, African, Australian and European manufacturing base is completely incapable of providing such a mounting and tripod. i.e. Nil. Nul points! Error 404. Does not compute!

It being only a pipe dream in the fantasy realms of highly advanced, alien technology worthy only of YouTube.
As such it will probably take the human race another century before a USEFULLY STABLE telescope mounting and tripod, for a small refractor, is available under a several thousand dollar ceiling. Perhaps never!?!

70mm with a suitably gentle focal ratio makes a far better telescope than smaller or shorter one.
70mm also better matches [Patrick] Moore's Law. ;-)
  #10  
Old January 2nd 17, 07:41 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default 60mm refractors are good

On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 12:46:08 PM UTC-5, Chris.B wrote:
On Monday, 2 January 2017 15:01:45 UTC+1, Quadibloc wrote:
On Monday, January 2, 2017 at 1:34:12 AM UTC-7, Chris.B wrote:

If only altazimuth mountings with drives and Goto became the norm. The small
refractor market could be transformed if only they would junk the CRAPPY
equatorials.


But if you want to take a long-exposure photograph, you need an equatorial.

John Savard


Those who wish to engage in imaging will need a far better equatorial than that supplied with my [optically useful] Bresser Skylux.


That "better equatorial" will cost more money than most would be willing or able to spend.

It has no drive motor for a start and manual steering would excite every node of its highly flexible, stumpy tripod and ridiculous mounting.




The mounting and tripod are probably fine, the telescope is too large, too long and/or too heavy for it. Again, more money.



The multi-task effort that went into casting, plating and machining the Bresser mounting could have provided a far better altazimuth and even a far
more useful tripod.


So why did you buy it?

How difficult can it be to make an offset fork with GPS for location and orientation?
Now apply sensors to read the altitude and azimuth positions.
The user selects a target and the pushes the telescope as a sound rises and falls in frequency.
The closer the telescope is pointed to the target object the higher the pitch.

Hey presto and Abracadabra! Push-to is already possible using a mobile phone with App attached to the telescope.
Vastly more people already own mobile telephones than own small refractors on crappy equatorial mountings.
So, in practice, the telescope owner needs only a stable mounting which actually holds the telescope STEADY enough to see everything the telescope optics can usefully offer.

I submit that the badly required stability could be most easily be provided by a plywood, offset fork mounting on a sturdy, well designed wooden tripod with well triangulated legs.
BUT! It seems that the entire might of the Chinese, American, Asian, African,
Australian and European manufacturing base is completely incapable of
providing such a mounting and tripod. i.e. Nil. Nul points! Error 404. Does
not compute!



Build us a prototype.


It being only a pipe dream in the fantasy realms of highly advanced, alien technology worthy only of YouTube.
As such it will probably take the human race another century before a
USEFULLY STABLE telescope mounting and tripod, for a small refractor, is
available under a several thousand dollar ceiling. Perhaps never!?!



WHY do you expect such things to be inexpensive?


 




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