A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Space Science » Policy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

BFR early next year.



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old March 14th 18, 08:10 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default BFR early next year.

JF Mezei wrote on Wed, 14 Mar 2018
03:42:22 -0400:

On 2018-03-13 18:40, Jeff Findley wrote:

They built a full scale composite tank and pressure tested it to
destruction a couple years ago.
http://www.businessinsider.com/space...nk-ocean-ship-
test-2016-11


But correct to state that the destructive test was only a few months
ago? I seem to recal some tank video that was much more recent than 2016.


True. Regular pressure tests were done at the end of 2016. The
destructive test was about a year later.

The prototypes had better be close to BFR/BFS in many ways, or it
wouldn't be very useful would it?


Depends on the goal of that test flight. It could very well be that a
real BFS ship is ready to be built with the structural aspects all done,
but will go without payload (the crew compartment)


Uh, the 'crew compartment' isn't payload. It's structure.


On the other hand, there maty be PR/marketing pressres to have a flight
early, at which point engineers are told to focus on engines/tanks and
just build a epty shell around iot that looks like BFS. (the real
structsures/shell can be designed/built later).


I don't think Musk will want to spend millions and millions of dollars
on a worthless test.


Or, we could see naked engines/tanks go up and down. It really depends
on how far they are in the design.


You don't set a test and then say, "And we'll conduct it with whatever
we can get together by then."

You really don't know **** about how engineering development works, do
you?


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
  #22  
Old March 15th 18, 12:09 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default BFR early next year.

JF Mezei wrote on Wed, 14 Mar 2018
18:26:19 -0400:


It will probably fly without the vacuum engines or a heat shield,


If those engines are mounted next to each other, wouldn't a test require
that there would at least be mockup vacuum engines mounted to ensure
that their bells don't interfere with the sea level engines ?


If that was a concern (and I'm not sure why you wouldn't figure that
out in ground testing), all you need are the bells. It's the engines
that are heavy, not the expansion bells.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
  #23  
Old March 15th 18, 12:12 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default BFR early next year.

JF Mezei wrote on Wed, 14 Mar 2018
18:42:42 -0400:

On 2018-03-14 15:10, Fred J. McCall wrote:

You don't set a test and then say, "And we'll conduct it with whatever
we can get together by then."

You really don't know **** about how engineering development works, do
you?


If you really think that Musk can design the BFS with all structures
inside in a couple of years and have a test this soon, you are overly
optimistic.


MUSK tends to be optimistic. Again, you don't set a date for the test
and then just fly with whatever the **** you have at that point.
Expect the test to move right.


Consider also that Musk like good PR stunts. And launching something
that looks like BFS this early is also a great PR stunt against NASA's SLS.


BFR Spaceship doesn't compete with SLS. Falcon Heavy (or Falcon Super
Heavy) competes with SLS.


Note: SpaceX spent more time on Dragon 2 than on BFS, and it still isn't
flying. To think that SpaceX has already designed a 100 pax ship is
ludicrous.


To think that they're going to blow hundreds of millions of dollars on
a publicity stunt is even more ludicrous.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
  #24  
Old March 15th 18, 11:30 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,307
Default BFR early next year.

In article ,
says...

On 2018-03-14 15:10, Fred J. McCall wrote:

You don't set a test and then say, "And we'll conduct it with whatever
we can get together by then."

You really don't know **** about how engineering development works, do
you?



If you really think that Musk can design the BFS with all structures
inside in a couple of years and have a test this soon, you are overly
optimistic.


You seem to be assuming that they are just starting development of BFS.
That's clearly not the case. Most design these days is done using
engineering software (like my company sells). What follows is building
subsystems to test (like the big tank test and the Raptor engines) and
then an engineering test vehicle (akin to Grasshopper or
Enterprise/Columia). SpaceX is attempting to progress to that stage of
development now. There will no doubt be issues to solve, but they've
certainly been working on this for years, at least with virtual models.

Consider also that Musk like good PR stunts. And launching something
that looks like BFS this early is also a great PR stunt against NASA's SLS.


For the Nth time, they're not going to launch "something that looks like
BFS". They're going to launch an engineering test vehicle that's as
close to "the real thing" as possible. That's how engineering works!
Well, unless you're working on Ares I-X or the first flight of SLS or
something. :-P

Note: SpaceX spent more time on Dragon 2 than on BFS, and it still isn't
flying. To think that SpaceX has already designed a 100 pax ship is
ludicrous.


Dragon 2 was constrained by NASA. There have been news reports that
commercial crew test flights might be delayed due to the need for NASA
reviews and NASA is short on people to do them in a timely manner.
That's not at all SpaceX's fault, now is it?

Jeff
--
All opinions posted by me on Usenet News are mine, and mine alone.
These posts do not reflect the opinions of my family, friends,
employer, or any organization that I am a member of.
  #25  
Old March 15th 18, 12:12 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default BFR early next year.

JF Mezei wrote on Thu, 15 Mar 2018
01:57:12 -0400:

On 2018-03-14 19:09, Fred J. McCall wrote:

If that was a concern (and I'm not sure why you wouldn't figure that
out in ground testing), all you need are the bells. It's the engines
that are heavy, not the expansion bells.


What are the major differences between a sea level Raptor and a vaccum
Raptor? Wouldn't the differences be focused on the shape of the bell?


Correct, which is why if interference of 'space engines' with 'sea
level' engines is a concern (and I can't imagine why it would be) you
only need the bells and not the engines.


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
  #26  
Old March 15th 18, 12:16 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default BFR early next year.

JF Mezei wrote on Thu, 15 Mar 2018
02:22:21 -0400:

On 2018-03-14 19:12, Fred J. McCall wrote:

To think that they're going to blow hundreds of millions of dollars on
a publicity stunt is even more ludicrous.


A test flight before SLS could mean a LOT to SpaceX if it means the USA
Govt kills SLS and directs Mars subsidies to SpaceX instead of to the
companies that get pork for SLS.


Let me say it again, since it seems not to have registered the first
time. BFR DOES NOT COMPETE WITH SLS. FALCON HEAVY DOES.


With the mega military spending, I suspect ATK will get plenty to eat
from military missile contracts instead of the life support from NASA to
make a couple of boosters. So it becomes politically possible to
redirect NASA's pork budget from ATK to SpaceX.


Just what military programs (other than ICBMs) are using large
segmented solid boosters?


Also, by having an early first test launch, it really shows that SpaceX
is more able to deliver than whoever is building SLS/Orion under NASA
guidance.


Let me say it again. BFR DOES NOT COMPETE WITH SLS. FALCON HEAVY
DOES.


So yes, I see plenty of reasons for Musk to push engineers to get
"something* ready to fly, even if it is an empty shell inside.


Once more. BFR DOES NOT COMPETE WITH SLS. FALCON HEAVY DOES.

Are you getting it yet?


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
  #28  
Old March 16th 18, 07:20 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Fred J. McCall[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,018
Default BFR early next year.

JF Mezei wrote on Thu, 15 Mar 2018
23:14:16 -0400:

On 2018-03-15 07:16, Fred J. McCall wrote:

Let me say it again, since it seems not to have registered the first
time. BFR DOES NOT COMPETE WITH SLS. FALCON HEAVY DOES.


At the marketing level, NASA pushes SLS/Orion as the spaceship to Mars.
(we all know this isn't a Mars ship, but NASA pitches it as such in
public aka: to politicians). Even Trump thinks SLS is going to Mars,


And it may very well do so if NASA continues stupid.


Musk announced BFR/BFS in a pitch for Mars colonisation, even setting
target price of $200k per passenger to Mars.

n


nnnn

Let me say it again. BFR DOES NOT COMPETE WITH SLS. FALCON HEAVY
DOES. n


It was pointed to me here very often that Falcon Heavy is just a
transitional temporary project and that BFR will replace it.

  #29  
Old March 16th 18, 08:16 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Niklas Holsti
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 168
Default BFR early next year.

On 18-03-16 05:14 , JF Mezei wrote:
On 2018-03-15 07:16, Fred J. McCall wrote:

...
Let me say it again. BFR DOES NOT COMPETE WITH SLS. FALCON HEAVY
DOES.


It was pointed to me here very often that Falcon Heavy is just a
transitional temporary project and that BFR will replace it.


I hope that SLS is also a transitional temporary project, and that BFR
will replace it. In this ephemeral role, too, Falcon Heavy competes with
SLS.

--
Niklas Holsti
Tidorum Ltd
niklas holsti tidorum fi
. @ .
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
YOUR EASTER PRESENT A LITTLE EARLY THIS YEAR Ed Conrad[_17_] Astronomy Misc 0 April 4th 12 12:22 PM
Most of the thousands of people who were arrested in these newsgroupswere because they carried ongoing year after year deadly hate with racism andthey turned against the underage people and their parents didn't let thathappen and those people went to [email protected] Astronomy Misc 0 October 2nd 08 06:33 AM
84 Year Old Woman Sentenced for Raping an Eleven Year Old Boy! Double-A[_1_] Misc 0 February 16th 07 05:23 PM
March 18, next year protest, and the year after that. [email protected] Astronomy Misc 0 March 19th 06 01:08 AM
Spirit Marks One Year on Mars (One Martian Year, that is) [email protected] News 0 November 22nd 05 12:27 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.