Toronto sto Efstonscience is history!!

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 23:20:06 -0700 (PDT), "Chris.B"
wrote:
People forget that evolution isn't about survival. It's about those
who can attract a mate before they die.

Which means you need to survive long enough to breed... :-). Also a
lot of species breed asexally, which mean they don't need to find a
mate, they can breed by themselves. Some species, e.g. the dandelion,
can even switch between sexual and asexual breeding.

The human race

The human species ......

broke the rules
and let the weak and diseased breed. It's a basic human right. So
now
we are going to die out from inbred stupidity.

The human problem is the opposite of dying out: we've bred too
successfully so now we're overpoplated instead. Btw any species
capable of advanced technology will be able to "break the rules", and
they will also use this ability since it's an evolutionary advantage.
We're the only species on Earth capable of making a decision about
what we WANT to do, instead of just blindly "following the rules".

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 23:38:23 -0500, Rich wrote:

Why? They offer nothing better than Amazon, so it all comes down to
price and the ability to deliver the product. What will be interesting
will be whether store-bought for a specific cost is less expensive or the
same as buying from some distributor who then charges a shipping cost.

Yes, foolish people base all their buying on price. That's why we have
places like Walmart.

You've obviously never bought any serious astronomical equipment if
you think that Amazon can provide the same sort of service as somebody
like Anacortes, SBIG, or OPT. Amazon has great customer service, but
it's all about the transaction, not the product. But you can call or
email any of the distributors or manufacturers I mentioned and talk to
somebody who has actually used the products you're considering or that
you're having issues with, and provide serious, competent advice.

It's going to be a long time (as in forever) before Amazon sells AP
scopes, SB mounts, or SBIG cameras. All of those folks, and most of
their distributors, are doing just fine with the Web being their
primary point of sale and point of customer contact, and there's
nothing to suggest that's going to change.

"Chris L Peterson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 11:17:10 -0700, lal_truckee
wrote:

On 6/30/12 9:32 AM, Bert wrote:
So it's really "Internet saves another niche business."

Not really.

Yes, really. Obviously people place more value in the ability to
conveniently shop at home than in actually going to a brick-and-mortar
store. This is a societal change, and can hardly be blamed on the
Internet. A retailer who is unable to adjust his business to changes
in how people CHOOSE to shop will go out of business. That's how
things have always worked, and nothing has changed in that respect
because of the Internet.

I know that I'd much rather buy astronomical instruments online, and
I'm old enough that most of my life has been about shopping in stores.

A "net presence" is one button push away from Amazon and can't compete.

There are millions of thriving niche companies doing most of their
business on the Internet, and Amazon poses them no threat. They thrive
in large part because they can provide a degree of service companies
like Amazon can't. If I want a blender, Amazon is great. But if I want
a CCD camera or a quality astronomical telescope, I'm going to look
for somebody who specializes in those kind of things.


chuckle,
any dad (dad not just a father) with a kid showing interest knows what is
being lost here. But then I've never seen a liberal DAD.

On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 10:42:34 -0500, "David Staup"
wrote:

chuckle,
any dad (dad not just a father) with a kid showing interest knows what is
being lost here. But then I've never seen a liberal DAD.

Enlighten us. What is being lost?

It sounds like conservative drivel to me: the way it used to be done
has to be better.

Chris L Peterson wrote in
:

On Sat, 30 Jun 2012 23:38:23 -0500, Rich wrote:

Why? They offer nothing better than Amazon, so it all comes down to
price and the ability to deliver the product. What will be
interesting will be whether store-bought for a specific cost is less
expensive or the same as buying from some distributor who then charges
a shipping cost.

Yes, foolish people base all their buying on price. That's why we have
places like Walmart.

You've obviously never bought any serious astronomical equipment

Do 200 telescopes costing from $100 to $12,000 each count? I never said
Amazon provides the kind of support that an Anacortes does, but from the
things I've read over the years on groups, the people who need "support"
for their purchases are primarily emailing or calling up the store they
are doing the transaction with so they can sooth their buyer's remorse by
having the seller continuously re-inforce the "rightness" of the buyer's
decision. That's not tech support, it's psychological support.

On 7/1/12 9:43 AM, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jul 2012 10:42:34 -0500, "David Staup"
wrote:

chuckle,
any dad (dad not just a father) with a kid showing interest knows what is
being lost here. But then I've never seen a liberal DAD.

Enlighten us. What is being lost?

It sounds like conservative drivel to me: the way it used to be done
has to be better.

I think he's talking about walking a son through a forest of telescopes
and mounts, ogling the hardware. Nothing like it to build interest.

I do admit I don't know what that last bit means? Liberal spender maybe?

On Sun, 01 Jul 2012 21:30:43 -0700, lal_truckee
wrote:

I think he's talking about walking a son through a forest of telescopes
and mounts, ogling the hardware. Nothing like it to build interest.

Sure there is. Doing it at a star party, where the stuff is actually
being used, and you're surrounded by enthusiasts. No experience in a
store will match that.

On Sunday, July 1, 2012 10:20:32 PM UTC-7, Chris L Peterson wrote:

Sure there is. Doing it at a star party, where the stuff is actually
being used, and you're surrounded by enthusiasts. No experience in a
store will match that.

Like this shameless plug, for example...

http://www.goldenstatestarparty.org/

.... gonna be a swell time. Friendly people, dark skies, what more could anyone ask for?

\Paul A

On 30/06/2012 19:23, Bert wrote:
In lal_truckee
wrote:

On 6/30/12 9:32 AM, Bert wrote:
So it's really "Internet saves another niche business."

Not really.
What a physical site offers is true browsing with tactile interface,

Which, apparently, was not of value to enough people.

Sadly what a lot of people do is go and visit the small shopkeeper, get
his skilled advice for free and play with his kit in store and then
*order* it online at a massive discount.

A lot of large high street stores these days just employ clueless
drudges anyway whose product knowledge is limited to the part number and
the lifting weight to get it off the shelf. It is sad to see the demise
of small shops but it seems inevitable as rents for physical bricks and
mortar shops increase and profitability falls.

which is now lost.
A "net presence" is one button push away from Amazon and can't
compete. So it's a temporary "save" at best.

Again, if enough people don't receive sufficient value from this outfit,
they're gone.

The trouble is that too many people exploit the goodwill of such outfits
and then go and buy the stuff online at a discount. You can hardly blame
them for cutting back a loss making part of the business.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Monday, July 2, 2012 12:00:08 AM UTC-7, Martin Brown wrote:

The trouble is that too many people exploit the goodwill of such outfits
and then go and buy the stuff online at a discount. You can hardly blame
them for cutting back a loss making part of the business.

Fortunately for me, OPT is just a few miles up the coast... the best of both worlds because their in-store prices are the same as their on-line prices.