|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours or rotates through its
equatorial circumference at a rate of 15 degrees/1037.5 miles per hour and an entire 24,901 mile circumference in 24 hours,it is a simple fact of the dimensions and rotational characteristics of our planet and if we care enough about this planet then people must begin to accept these facts. The minor problem of empiricists not comprehending their own system pales in comparison to the situation where it is now even a struggle to confirm that the Earth is round and rotating using cause and effect and with all the values attached so surely somebody else has a sense that a descent to such an intellectual standard is the worst possible scenario regardless of who is offended.It is not so much an astronomical problem as a struggle to set a standard of intelligence at the lowest possible rung and having expressed dismay that there is no sense of a fight,excitement or some indication that there actually is a crisis that goes way become the topic itself ,I refuse to believe that people would knowingly accept an embarrassing error rather than deal with it regardless of what position they took previously. It is though people are asleep or just can't get their heads around the loss of basic planetary facts and much of it is centered within a short period of time in the late 17th century.Rather than jump to the defense of Isaac,empiricists are asked to consider the actual meaning of absolute/relative time as it applies to Flamsteed's conclusion for daily rotation using circumpolar motion (fixed stars) by losing not just cause and effect but also rotational and orbital planetary dynamics which was always contained in rotation to natural noon and the natural inequality. "Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation or correlation of the vulgar time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their more accurate deducing of the celestial motions. It may be, that there is no such thing as an equable motion, whereby time may be accurately measured." Isaac Newton Don't try to make sense of that statement beyond the references which distinguish the natural noon cycle from the average 24 hour cycle insofar as there is no external reference for daily rotation as an independent motion,the average 24 hour day transfers to daily rotation as a constant and reaching to fix daily rotation directly with circumpolar motion is just pure and crude vandalism. Is there not one individual,just one,who firmly respects the consequences of losing information on planetary dynamics and the terrestrial effects experienced by everyone of our race ?.This is not a game,it is not anything other than a struggle for intelligence at a level even I don't want to consider for behind the monstrous no center/ no circumference ideologies of big bang/black hole is a type of mentality that no race of people should ever,ever acclaim. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On 4/28/10 10:11 AM, oriel36 wrote:
The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours or rotates through its equatorial circumference at a rate of 15 degrees/1037.5 miles per hour and an entire 24,901 mile circumference in 24 hours,it is a simple fact of the dimensions and rotational characteristics of our planet and if we care enough about this planet then people must begin to accept these facts. Gerald, you are fighting a loosing battle as direct observation contradicts you, as has been pointed out many a time. With just a few hours of sunlight left in your area, prepare to sight the star Arcturus in the east with respect to a building, pole or tree and start your stopwatch. Then tomorrow night stop the stop watch when Arcturus again lines with respect to a building, pole or tree. Do it Gerald... you don't want to be like the clergy that looked through Galileo's telescope darkly. |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On Apr 28, 5:14*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 4/28/10 10:11 AM, oriel36 wrote: The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours or rotates through its equatorial circumference at a rate of 15 degrees/1037.5 miles per hour and an entire 24,901 mile circumference in 24 hours,it is a simple fact of the dimensions and rotational characteristics of our planet and if we care enough about this planet then people must begin to accept these facts. * *Gerald, you are fighting a loosing battle as direct observation * *contradicts you, as has been pointed out many a time.With just * *a few hours of sunlight left in your area, prepare to sight the * *star Arcturus in the east with respect to a building, pole or tree * *and start your stopwatch. Then tomorrow night stop the stop watch * *when Arcturus again lines with respect to a building, pole or tree.. People have another choice,this time using cause and effect,where slower rotational speeds towards the geographical poles correlate directly with twilight lengths at different latitudes and they would have to be ashamed of themselves for taking not part in what is a struggle to maintain the lowest rung in the ladder of intelligence.There is nothing,absolutely nothing that is not known of the basic facts and dimensions of our planet where its equatorial speed is 1037.5 miles per hour and turning through its full 24,901 mile equatorial circumference in 24 hours. I would have always tried to tempt empiricists into taking notice of their own system,something they have never understood, by going through the elaborate and distorted scheme Newton devised, even tried to shame what would be normally intelligent people into looking at the cause and effect of a round and rotating Earth in terms of the integral components of daylight/darkness and the transition through the circle of illumination via a round and rotating Earth and I never consider losing this battle for the alternative is horrendous.Normally,intelligent people cannot stand pretense but your empirical pretense begins at such a ridiculous level where not even the explanations for the daylight/darkness and twilight lengths are safe and that has to mean something to people,no matter how indifferent they appear to be.It is not about finding agreement with me at this level ,historically and technically,the principles which link planetary geography with the average 24 hour day organised around the imaginary lines of longitude and so what if it takes a small effort to work out where the average day comes from and how it transfers to rotation as a constant,it retains all planetary facts on rotation,dimensions and all the ancillary function for terrestrial effects. Again,how can an entire race of people lose the basic planetary facts surrounding planetary dimensions,rotation period,cause and effect for even though we inherited the mess and it is nobody's fault here,it does not mean we must continue to suffer this crude embarrassment. * *Do it Gerald... you don't want to be like the clergy that looked * *through Galileo's telescope darkly. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On Apr 28, 5:14*pm, Sam Wormley wrote:
On 4/28/10 10:11 AM, oriel36 wrote: The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours or rotates through its equatorial circumference at a rate of 15 degrees/1037.5 miles per hour and an entire 24,901 mile circumference in 24 hours,it is a simple fact of the dimensions and rotational characteristics of our planet and if we care enough about this planet then people must begin to accept these facts. * *Gerald, you are fighting a loosing battle as direct observation * *contradicts you, as has been pointed out many a time. With just * *a few hours of sunlight left in your area, prepare to sight the * *star Arcturus in the east with respect to a building, pole or tree * *and start your stopwatch. Then tomorrow night stop the stop watch * *when Arcturus again lines with respect to a building, pole or tree.. * *Do it Gerald... you don't want to be like the clergy that looked * *through Galileo's telescope darkly. You have convinced yourselves that Galileo is one of your own even though none of you affirm the retrograde resolution through the Earth's own orbital motion ,something that Galileo understood while you dither around with an absolute space/hypothetical observer on the Sun junk of Newton and this tells me a lot about people here,the attempt to diminish Christianity through denominational Christianity is done with the same efficiency as the other holocaust,not because of a small number of empiricists creating havoc with their predictions/ modelling agendas but the larger community which does not want to think for itself.You could do none of it without their support and that is why I have had to turn to holocaust literature to discover why this living nightmare is happening - "The existing explanations for the ease with which the Nazis conducted their hellish program are varied, but to a greater or lesser degree almost all scholarly and popular interpretations of the Holocaust incorporate among their premises that it was aberrational, covert and uniquely efficient. The slaughter is said to have expressed the will of a small circle of lunatic Nazi and not the will of the German people, who were antisemetic but not murderously so. It is said that the killing was conducted out of the sight of the nation and with industrial efficiency by a relatively small number of people insane with ideology. The effect of these premises is to make the Holocaust a political and not a social event, with the happy consequence that responsibility for it rests squarely on a small number of identifiable political and military operatives and not on the German nation as a whole. In the years since the war a great deal of intellectual firepower has been devoted to examining these premises, and and hopeful scholars have found some evidence in support for each of them. Goldhagen, an assistant professor government and social studies at Harvard, will have none of it." http://www.spectacle.org/696/goldhag.html Somebody has to take responsibility for the loss of basic planetary facts that form the bedrock of much of what is good and intelligent about Western civilization and it should not come down to one person continually refreshing the arguments,some old some new,in order to recover a sense of dignity to this wayward community. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On Apr 28, 10:40*am, oriel36 wrote:
You have convinced yourselves that Galileo is one of your own *even though none of you affirm the retrograde resolution *through the Earth's own orbital motion ,something that Galileo understood while you dither around with an absolute space/hypothetical observer on the Sun junk of Newton What in the world are you talking about? EVERYONE here understands that retrograde motion is resolved once you understand that it is only an apparent motion due to Earth's own orbital motion, combined with the orbital motion of the other planets. This has NEVER been in dispute. From another frame of reference, however, as from high above or far below the solar system, you would see no retrogrades, you would only note that all planets go round and round the sun in the same direction, each at their own rate. Or, as Newton so clearly stated, if you were able to stand on the sun, you would not see retrogrades from there, either, and it has nothing to do with 'absolute space'. Somebody has to take responsibility for the loss of basic planetary facts that form the bedrock of much of what is good and intelligent about Western civilization and it should not come down to one person continually refreshing the arguments,some old some new,in order to recover a sense of dignity to this wayward community. I don't think we need to worry about 'one person' changing history, especially when that person has a practically non -existent grasp of very basic astrophysical principles, even though small children can be easily made to understand them. Unless and until you can figure out how to actually learn and understand something new, and stop being so obtuse, you are doomed to wallow in your self-made swamp of ineffectual facts and hollow conceptions, and that is too bad, because you could learn a lot here. "Much learning does not teach understanding." - Heraclitus "Life is a learning experience, only if you learn." - Yogi Berra \Paul the Nuisance, who gets frustrated when certain folks can't grasp simple concepts... |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
"oriel36" wrote in message ... The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours With respect to what? The Moon The Sun The local Stars The Galaxy The Universe what? |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On Apr 30, 6:30*pm, "OG" wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message ... The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours With respect to what? The Moon The Sun The local Stars The Galaxy The Universe what? The phrase "with respect to" has absolutely no meaning to Oriel, and THAT'S THE WHOLE PROBLEM. If he had even an inkling about frames of reference, things would be a lot different for him, and most of his goofy "theories" would just evaporate. Unfortunately, Oriel has shown no ability to learn anything here, or anywhere else, for that matter, and that is a shame. It is frustrating to read so many really good explanations from many very knowledgeable people here about so many great topics (I know I learn a lot), only to have pompous Oriel come strutting in with his snooty holier-then-thou attitude, spewing the same old drivel, day after day, hijacking thread after thread, and basically claiming that no one but himself has any idea about astronomy, geology, climatology, anthropology, and just about any other "ology" that you can think of. I've never known anyone who could be so consistently wrong and yet so consistently sure of himself. I applaud his self-confidence on the one hand, but on the other hand there is something very wrong with someone who puts himself above virtually every astronomer on the planet, alive or dead, and refers to almost everyone here as unintelligent and/or a nuisance. \Paul A |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On May 1, 2:30*am, "OG" wrote:
"oriel36" wrote in message ... The Earth completes a full rotation in 24 hours With respect to what? The Moon The Sun The local Stars The Galaxy The Universe what? It takes nothing more than working with basic planetary dimensions and rotational characteristics to explain twilight length variations at different latitudes and then you have your answer,the most fundamental astronomical fact is that we experience the daylight/darkness cycle due to rotation and the roundness of the Earth organised around the Earth's rotational characteristics of equator and poles generate variations in twilight lengths as longer twilights correlate to slower rotational speeds towards the poles from a maximum equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour.It is something of a 21st century experience in that people now travel great latitudinal distances within in a short period of time,from Northern to Southern Europe or Alaska down to California and they will notice the remarkable differences in the shift from daylight to darkness when coming from Northern latitudes so people should briefly be ashamed of themselves for trying to ignore the experience and what causes it. The single daylight/darkness cycle at the geographical poles is special for the simple reason that it does not arise from daily rotation but from the orbital motion of the Earth,the fact that the Earth does not keep the same orbital face to the Sun but turns through 360 degree and takes a complete annual orbit to do it hence twilight at the geographical poles around the orbital points of the equinoxes.It is never a matter of having to find agreement with me,just that people for themselves will come to like the idea that our planet and all planets orbit the central Sun in a specific way and ,when allied with daily rotation and its characteristics,causes the seasons and the natural noon cycles to vary. I have explained thousands of times that the words 'average' and 'constant' are interchangeable and how our astronomical ancestors exploited,albeit in a productive way,the distinction which separates the natural noon cycle from the 24 hour cycle,for the procedure which gives us equable hours,minutes and seconds derived from the 24 hour average (' equable' too is interchangeable with 'constant' ) and allows these averages to translate into the progression of days such as Monday into Tuesday into Wednesday and so on (I really wish I didn't have to do this !) serves to transfer this average cycle to constant rotation while knowing that the reference for the daily cycle shows an inequality.As far as I know,Gemma Frissius was either the first or one of the first to figure out that clocks can determine location on the planet based on planetary dimensions organised around the Earth's daily rotational characteristics.I will grant that this area can be complicated but here too there is nothing overly difficult with familiarity as opposed to that rude idea that circumpolar motion represents rotation through 360 degrees,somehow you ignore that a crude conclusion such as 'sidereal time' is mistaken for a simple conclusion. I don't want people to agree with me,I want them to provide a clearer explanation with all the 21st century resources available to explain things such as how twilight lengths vary with latitude,the difference between global climate and hemispherical weather patterns of Spring/ Summer/Fall/Winter,the influence of rotation of evolutionary geology and many,many more things that are there to be considered and argued over.You can stick with daily rotation directly to circumpolar motion and celestial sphere geometry,that will get you 'time travel' and the ridiculous 'no center/no circumference' ideologies but people can do far better than this.No more than people should hold anything against me, and goodness knows I sometimes cringe when I come across my old postings,neither do I hold anything against those who previously believed in things they would not normally do but this being the usenet with all its advantages and disadvantages,it is time to place some of these things in a permanent setting and the simple proof for a round and rotating Earth in 24 hours is a start,after that,it would be interesting to see things evolve in a productive way for a change. |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On May 1, 1:09*am, oriel36 wrote:
I have explained thousands of times that the words 'average' and 'constant' are interchangeable And, there you are. They are NOT. With respect to the Sun, the Earth rotates at an average of once every 24 hours. Because the Earth's rotation is not in the plane of the ecliptic, but inclined to it by an angle of about 23 1/2 degrees, and because it orbits the Sun in an ellipse following Kepler's laws, not in a perfect circle at uniform speed, the return of the Sun to the meridian at any one location does not quite take place at a constant period of 24 hours, but rather is affected by the Equation of Time. An average, but not a constant. But with respect to the fixed stars - except for very small and subtle effects due to seasonal changes in the winds, which are explained by the conservation of angular momentum - the return of a star to the meridian takes place at a constant 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4 seconds. A constant, not merely an average. Something that actually takes place every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds. Something that we might wish would take place every 24 hours, because life would be simpler, but actually over the course of a year takes place about 15 minutes earlier or later compared to the average time it takes place. Which one is simpler and more uniform? Which one is more basic, and makes more sense for using to understand planetary dynamics? Obviously, the former, not the latter. No matter how much you, with your wishful thinking, try to say it is the other way around. Apparently because we should just admire the beauty of the Universe, and not make any effort trying to break down planetary motions into their components so we can really understand them, and apply mathematics to them. An intellectual disaster that guides astronomers away from productive channels of work? Don't blame Newton and Flamsteed. You're the one doing his best to bring one about. And your efforts are pathetic because no one is fooled. This is why I, and others, plead and beg with you to instead turn some of your efforts into examining why you may be wrong, and being willing to think and to learn. You are not trying to cause harm; you genuinely believe you are the one voice speaking out for truth in astronomy. This is tragic, even if you are the only one hurt by the tragedy. John Savard |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
The round and rotating Earth
On 5/1/10 2:09 AM, oriel36 wrote:
It takes nothing more than working with basic planetary dimensions and rotational characteristics to explain twilight length variations at different latitudes and then you have your answer,the most fundamental astronomical fact is that we experience the daylight/darkness cycle due to rotation and the roundness of the Earth organised around the Earth's rotational characteristics of equator and poles generate variations in twilight lengths as longer twilights correlate to slower rotational speeds towards the poles from a maximum equatorial speed of 1037.5 miles per hour. I would be interesting to hear your explanation of twilight length on a planet in a two sun system. The angle that the ecliptic makes with the horizon, does correlate with the lengths of civil, nautical and astronomical twilight for any given location, Gerald. I think you should download a free planetarium program and play with it, then go outside and observe reality directly. Do you need a real amateur astronomer to assist you? |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
OBAMA SHIT CANS NASA'S RETURN-TO-THE-MOON EFFORT! - Now 40 moreyears of going round and round and round! | Double-A[_3_] | Astronomy Misc | 20 | February 2nd 10 09:22 PM |
Discrimination carries the word 'disc', round and round, actually itis dis and crimination (hate), dis and crimination = clensing, also known ashate discrimination which comes with eye for eye tendencies to label anddiscriminate, veng that results fr | [email protected] | Astronomy Misc | 6 | August 1st 08 02:10 AM |
Going Round and Round for 40 Years+ NASA Stealing Billions | G=EMC^2 Glazier[_1_] | Misc | 5 | January 8th 08 11:13 PM |
Round Earth | Sheldon[_2_] | Misc | 13 | August 1st 07 02:25 PM |
JP Aerospace and rotating sun toy | Vincent Cate | Policy | 3 | May 29th 04 01:49 PM |