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Real astronomical challenges



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 22nd 18, 09:45 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Real astronomical challenges

The partitioning of direct/retrogrades by perspective is immediately apparent in terms of the illusory loops of the slower moving outer planets and the actual loops of the faster moving inner planets as seen from the orbital motion of the Earth -

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/031...rs03_tezel.jpg

http://www.insideastronomy.com/uploa...0_7_128459.jpg


Until genuine astronomers affirm that the stars move from an evening appearance to a morning appearance as a consequence of a central Sun and a moving Earth, the proof of the Earth's orbital motion will be ignored as will all the modifications to bring comprehension up to 21st century imaging standards.

Precession of the Equinoxes

This is a consequence of the proportion of rotations not being exactly 1461 rotations to 4 orbital circuits as the original system where Sirius skips an first annual appearance by one day after 4 circuits of 365 days is reliant solely on the orbital motion of the Earth whereas the Greek astronomers used the motion of the Sun through the constellations.

The Equation of Time

A result of two surface rotations acting in combination but can be isolated by their distinctive day/night cycles both the diurnal and the polar.

The cause of the seasons

From the same cause as the natural noon variations insofar as the polar day/night cycle substitutes for seasonal changes in daylight/darkness.


So many challenges however I recognize that the mental and intuitive faculties have been so weakened over the centuries that not even the use of time lapse and sequential imaging can direct the reader's view towards huge changes in astronomical perspectives.

  #2  
Old February 23rd 18, 09:26 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Real astronomical challenges

Precession of the Equinoxes

The oldest system of time reckoning using cyclical astronomical events was fixing the beginning of the year. While it is based on the proportions of days to years, it transfers easily to rotations per orbital circuit by simple division. In its expanded form of 1461 days in proportion to 4 years, a day represents one rotation however a year doesn't represent one orbital circuit insofar as a year formatted as 366 days (Leap year) is just as valid as a year with 365 days.

The first annual appearance of a star to one side of the Sun is due to the orbital motion of the Earth as the horizon acts as a type of sunshade with the horizon acting to allow everything to the left of the sun in the evening and the right side of the Sun in the morning. Only on a solar eclipse does the central Sun display the solar system in its entirety where stars and planets display their position either side of the Sun from our orbital vantage point -

http://images.astronet.ru/pubd/2009/...ttle_label.jpg

Regulus which appears to the left of the Sun will eventually be seen to the right as the Earth moves along its orbital circuit and this astronomical event is the baseline for the calendar format, the proportion of rotations to orbital circuits, the precession of the equinoxes and many other primary and secondary topics.





  #3  
Old February 24th 18, 10:02 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Real astronomical challenges

The general rule is fairly straightforward.

When discussing anything to do with predictions as times and dates, whether the positions of celestial objects relative to each other or engineering issues such as rocketry , the apparent motion of the Sun and solar system objects moves through the constellations.

When discussing cause and effect of the Earth's motions on terrestrial sciences and the actual structure of the solar system, such as inner planetary direct/retrograde motions or proof of the Earth's orbital motion, the transition of the stars from left to right (evening to morning appearance) is the correct perspective.


The latter perspective is not entirely new but was lost for thousands of years to the Greek perspective which remains so useful for predictions but this was compounded further by the emergence of RA/Dec which is even more precise as it brings in exact times of astronomical events with a 24 hour day. Normally people would accept the perspective differences and begin the huge endeavor of investigating how to work with the motions of the stars behind the central Sun due to the orbital motion of the Earth but the faculties necessary to make the leap have been weakened among people even when animated graphics open up a new and more expansive astronomy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeQwYrfmvoQ

So, the celestial sphere astronomy remains useful but unusable for those areas of astronomy which are most important where cause and effect are present and especially how the motions of the Earth affect experiences on the surface of the planet.




  #4  
Old February 25th 18, 10:07 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Real astronomical challenges

"The third is the motion in declination. For, the axis of the daily rotation is not parallel to the Grand Orb's axis, but is inclined [to it at an angle that intercepts] a portion of a circumference, in our time about 23 1/2°. Therefore, while the earth's center always remains in the plane of the ecliptic, that is, in the circumference of a circle of the Grand Orb, the earth's poles rotate, both of them describing small circles about centers [lying on a line that moves] parallel to the Grand Orb's axis." Copernicus, Commentariolus

http://copernicus.torun.pl/en/archiv...=transkrypcja&

Even descriptions of the seasons today of the North and South poles from an ecliptic polar view use those circles scribed by polar latitudes with the circles coincident with the Arctic/Antarctic circles, of course, the surface rotation as a function of orbital motion reflects the surface rotation of the entire Earth. Let's not kid ourselves, the strain to hold on to axial precession as a 25900 year event with the actual cause of the seasons using two distinct rotations acting in combination is the central issue.


Separate to all this, the increasing popularity of a pivoting circle of illumination and a planet with a zero degree inclination is alarming, not among a small group of fundamentalists but among mainstream reference conduits such as Wiki or APOD -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season

https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap170319.html

The level of discussion belongs with how the precession of the equinoxes is resolved as a further refinement of the leap day correction based on the original astronomical references in terms of a more exact proportion of rotations to an orbital circuit. It returns to the original relationship which Copernicus pointed out between the North/South poles and the central Sun and as small circles scribed by the planet parallel to the orbital plane as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth.









  #5  
Old February 26th 18, 04:40 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
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Default Real astronomical challenges

On Sunday, February 25, 2018 at 2:07:43 AM UTC-7, Gerald Kelleher quoted, in part:
Therefore, while the earth's center always remains in the plane of the ecliptic,
that is, in the circumference of a circle of the Grand Orb, the earth's poles
rotate, both of them describing small circles about centers [lying on a line
that moves] parallel to the Grand Orb's axis." Copernicus, Commentariolus


The idea that the Earth's poles, instead of remaining fixed, always pointing in
the same direction, as the Earth revolves around the Sun, *rotate* in a circle
around _ecliptic_ north...

is currently considered to be mistaken by the astronomers of today.

And yet, who would dare to dispute with the great Copernicus?

Ah, but could it not be that since Copernicus - except for an ancient Greek,
whose insights had been discarded and forgotten - was the _first_ to see that
the Earth orbited the Sun, even as the Moon does the earth, if he tried to speak
in a fully Copernican language, he would have no one to understand him?

And so, it is entirely to be understood and forgiven that he had to express his
discoveries and insights in geocentric language.

John Savard
  #6  
Old February 26th 18, 09:31 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Real astronomical challenges

Success in astronomical matters comes from growing into new insights as much as growing out of older and deficient perspectives but there will always be those who are dead to anything beyond what they were taught in school.

There is a way celestial sphere predicting can exist along with the use of the transition of the stars from an evening to morning appearance as a means to demonstrate the Earth orbits the Sun. The latter allows planetary traits to be anchored in the central Sun like the rotation for the 24 hour day/night cycle and the rotations behind the seasons whereas the former only registers what is moving relative to what without physical considerations.

It means axial precession has to give way as a concept so that the surface rotation as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth (parallel to the orbital plane) can be isolated with imaging of our planet and the other planets supporting this process. It is a huge undertaking so it would be better if people just got on with the endeavor than dithering around with awkward or absurd notions.

  #7  
Old February 27th 18, 10:02 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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Default Real astronomical challenges

On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 8:31:22 PM UTC, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
There is a way celestial sphere predicting can exist along with the use of the transition of the stars from an evening to morning appearance as a means to demonstrate the Earth orbits the Sun.


The Earth orbits the Sun?

Good Lord, call the newspapers!

  #8  
Old February 27th 18, 03:19 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Default Real astronomical challenges

For those who wish to take up the challenge it is more of talking up the Polar day/night cause via a surface rotation parallel to the ecliptic plane as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth than talking down axial precession.

The neolithic astronomers of Newgrange and Stonehenge had fixed their monuments to the Solstices which occur today as they did 5,200 years ago and perhaps 4,200 respectively.

http://www.newgrange.com/winter_solstice.htm


The more adventurous would be able to navigate the many issues involved including how the Southern declination on the December Solstice is halted giving the builders a number of days before and after the Solstice to use the Sun's appearance as a light spectacle when that spectacle is impossible on the Equinox when the declination is rapid. It is why the Knowth and other Equinox alignments do not have roofboxes as Newgrange does -

http://www.carrowkeel.com/sites/boyne/jpegs/moonmap.jpg


It means the North and South poles exhibit the same position to the circle of illumination and to the central Sun as they did all those thousands of years ago. It is the Precession of the Equinoxes is a more refined observation that caused Sirius to skip a first annual appearance by 1 day after four cycles of 365 days. The orbital drift was picked up the the 1582 calendar correction as dates had diverged from the solstice and equinox points and were realigned after the correction was made.

Although the Newgrange alignment is of recent origin, had anyone showed up on the December Solstice in 1751 to observed the alignment, they would have been disappointed as the alignment occurred 11 days earlier because they 'enlightened' academics had refused to enact the correction instituted by the Church about 180 years earlier. The slow drift in the orbital position using the proportion of rotations to orbital circuits shows up as the Precession of the Equinoxes just as the larger drift shows up as Sirius skipping a first annual appearance after 4 orbital circuits.

It is not a matter of growing up but growing into the points.










  #9  
Old February 27th 18, 03:26 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
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On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 2:19:49 PM UTC, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
It is the Precession of the Equinoxes is a more refined observation that caused Sirius to skip a first annual appearance by 1 day after four cycles of 365 days.


No - the first appearance of Sirius is now after the summer solstice. In ancient Egypt it was before the solstice.

This is not because the dates are out of synch due to leap days - that effect can not reverse the order of these events.
  #10  
Old February 27th 18, 03:33 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gerald Kelleher
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Posts: 1,551
Default Real astronomical challenges

For those who wish to take up the challenge it is more of talking up the Polar day/night cause via a surface rotation parallel to the ecliptic plane as a function of the orbital motion of the Earth than talking down axial precession.

The neolithic astronomers of Newgrange and Stonehenge had fixed their monuments to the Solstices which occur today as they did 5,200 years ago and perhaps 4,200 respectively.

http://www.newgrange.com/winter_solstice.htm


The more adventurous would be able to navigate the many issues involved including how the Southern declination on the December Solstice is halted giving the builders a number of days before and after the Solstice to use the Sun's appearance as a light spectacle when that spectacle is impossible on the Equinox when the declination is rapid. It is why the Knowth and other Equinox alignments do not have roofboxes as Newgrange does -

http://www.carrowkeel.com/sites/boyne/jpegs/moonmap.jpg


It means the North and South poles exhibit the same position to the circle of illumination and to the central Sun as they did all those thousands of years ago. It is the Precession of the Equinoxes is a more refined observation that caused Sirius to skip a first annual appearance by 1 day after four cycles of 365 days. The orbital drift was picked up the the 1582 calendar correction as dates had diverged from the solstice and equinox points and were realigned after the correction was made.

Although the Newgrange alignment is of recent origin, had anyone showed up on the December Solstice in 1751 to observed the alignment, they would have been disappointed as the alignment occurred 11 days earlier because they 'enlightened' academics had refused to enact the correction instituted by the Church about 180 years earlier. The slow drift in the orbital position using the proportion of rotations to orbital circuits shows up as the Precession of the Equinoxes just as the larger drift shows up as Sirius skipping a first annual appearance after 4 orbital circuits.

It is not a matter of growing up but growing into the points.

NB - Once astronomers are conceptually bound to the astronomical event where any star close to the orbital plane will skip a first annual appearance after the 4th cycle of 365 days, they are bound to the proportions of rotations to orbital circuits close to 1461 rotations to 4 orbital circuits or 365 1/4 rotations to one circuit. The Precession of the Equinoxes as a result that it is not exactly 365 1/4 rotations per circuit.

 




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