Any legal basis to take Maxson down?

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 16:58:20 +0100, Doug Ellison wrote:

OK - moron maxon and his lying child have taken over the newsgroup again.
Now I'm not sure of US law on the issue - but I'm fairly sure that making
the claims that he does are way out of line..

1) Out of line?

Yes.

2) Illegal?

Not in the sense you mean... it does break some laws governing
harassment, but nothing major-league felony.

3) Legally actionable?

Yes, by several parties. This is the mainstay of defense against
such charges: _civil actions_. And Maxson, for the statements in
his book, as wishy-washy and mealy-mouthed as they are, is liable
to lawsuits that could strip him of what little worldly goods he
possesses... if anyone took the trouble to file suit.

4) Will anyone take action?

No.

5) Their rationale for this?

It would be foolish to spend more money than could be possibly
earned back when no one believes JTM to begin with. Why spend time
and money on a netkook that no one believes?

You nust understand that in real life no one connects JTM's ravings
with the tragic, and accidental, destruction of Challenger. No
measurable fraction of the population is even aware of the
existence of JTM's blatherings.

Despite his continual efforts to flood the Google database with his
garbage people just come, look, and go away unconvinced. This is
empirically verified by the complete lack of JTM-related Challenger
stuff in the news.

His only support base is those who already believed that NASA is
capable of murder, deception, and hiding UFO's... the lunatic
fringe.

Read that again - 'Challenger was no accident'

Thus he is claiming that infact, the death of the Challenger astronauts was
murder.

Er... I think I've mentioned that myself, in the past.

To make such a statement must breach some sort of US law surely?

Nothing major.
It is actionable, however.

Even if it's just fraud ( I wonder how many churches, libraries
and other organisations have recieved his sci-fi novel at reduced
price, or the claim a softback book takes $31 to make )

You live in a socialist country

Free speech gives one the right to publish what one believes and
free enterprise gives one the right to charge whatever one wishes
to charge for it. Whether one gets ridiculed for those beliefs
and/or gets one's ass sued off for it afterwords is another
matter altogether.

It's clear that we wont be rid of this vermin until some ACTION is taken.

No... that doesn't obtain at all.

Killfilling, and educating other about killfilling just does not work.

It works.

The problem is that JTM has found it very rewarding to goad people
into responding to his drivel... and they're NOT killfiling him.

True, the same could be said for Daniel, who is the only one of the
three not killfiled by me.

We shall see if and when he puts up his promised evidence.

Otherwise it is pretty much a dead issue, interesting only in some
technical aspects.

Doug

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

"Doug Ellison" wrote in message
...
OK - moron maxon and his lying child have taken over the newsgroup again.
Now I'm not sure of US law on the issue - but I'm fairly sure that making
the claims that he does are way out of line.

Out of line, sure. But illegal? No. That's what the First Amendment is for.
He's protected and allowed to say (or write) what he wishes, and rightfully
so. As much as I think he's paranoid, bombastic, mentally ill in a broad
sense, and a bit of a jerk to boot, I would stand up for his right to write
his book and try to make his case. Just because he is completely incapable
of doing so doesn't mean he should be denied the chance in a public forum.
However, since he's just ranting and raving and not making any sense, and
this NG suffers for it, it is equally within other reader's rights to go
somewhere else private and work to keep him out.

Read that again - 'Challenger was no accident'

Thus he is claiming that infact, the death of the Challenger astronauts
was
murder. To make such a statement must breach some sort of US law surely?

As much as he throws around the words "libel" and "slander" I think the only
people who could rightly open a case making those claims would be NASA
personnel, filing against him and his spawn. If you think about it...
Alleging deliberate leaks of hydrogen at the pad, covering up "evidence"
yadda yadda, is basically an open accusation of murder against people who
were just doing their jobs, whether they were working on the pad or
investigating the accident. If he had any concrete evidence that didn't come
from between his own ears that these things really happened, he might have a
case, but until then it is libel and slander. I doubt the families of the
astronauts would be too thrilled to read some of this stuff either. I think
if he was on national TV instead of slow-broiling in untreated madness,
alone in Iowa somewhere, he'd already be facing some serious legal flak.

If I were wealthy, american, and had time on my hands, I'd LOVE to take
this
scum to the courts and see him found guilty of whatever it is he could be
found guilty of. Even if it's just fraud ( I wonder how many churches,
libraries and other organisations have recieved his sci-fi novel at
reduced
price, or the claim a softback book takes $31 to make )

Come on. He's not the only intellectually dishonest person with an axe to
grind and a book to sell.

It's clear that we wont be rid of this vermin until some ACTION is taken.
Killfilling, and educating other about killfilling just does not work.

The best action would probably be to make a sci.space.shuttle.moderated.

Take him down for what he should be taken down for - spreading "junk
science" and slandering just about everybody he's ever come into contact
with. Polluting a newsgroup is not a crime. If it was, I'd be in trouble...

In article ,
OM om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote:

...No, you specifically make a group that excludes *only* Maxsons and
other trolls, and doesn't stifle any other postings. This is where
.moderated failed, in that it wasn't specific in this aspect. It
suffers from the same stigma that a lot of other moderated groups
suffer from: fear of posting as you normally would and having yourself
banned by a moderator who hasn't a clue and/or has a corncob stuck up
their butt.

OM for moderator!

Nick

"Doug Ellison" wrote in message
...
OK - moron maxon and his lying child have taken over the newsgroup again.

I disagree. Maxson mania has taken over the groups - responding to their
posts is the problem.

Killfile is the solution.
--
Alan Erskine
alanerskine(at)optusnet.com.au
John Howard doesn't speak for this
Australian in the Amrosi death sentence -
Jail, not death.

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 17:12:20 GMT, "Terrence Daniels"
wrote:

The best action would probably be to make a sci.space.shuttle.moderated.

....No, you specifically make a group that excludes *only* Maxsons and
other trolls, and doesn't stifle any other postings. This is where
..moderated failed, in that it wasn't specific in this aspect. It
suffers from the same stigma that a lot of other moderated groups
suffer from: fear of posting as you normally would and having yourself
banned by a moderator who hasn't a clue and/or has a corncob stuck up
their butt.

....sci.space.hors, anyone?


OM

--

"No ******* ever won a war by dying for | http://www.io.com/~o_m
his country. He won it by making the other | Sergeant-At-Arms
poor dumb ******* die for his country." | Human O-Ring Society

- General George S. Patton, Jr

I'm not sure of US law on the issue

The U.S. constitution gives broad protection to the
expression of opinions, even if they are unpopular
opinons.

If a person who was mentioned in the book felt he was
libeled (false accusations were made about him which
damaged his reputation), then he could sue. However
those kinds of lawsuits are difficult to win.

Why spend time and money on a netkook
that no one believes?

If few people actually believe what the author said,
then that could weaken any potential lawsuit, as the
person suing might have trouble proving that their
reputation was seriously damaged.

- James

Alan Erskine wrote:

"Doug Ellison" wrote in message
...
OK - moron maxon and his lying child have taken over the newsgroup again.

I disagree. Maxson mania has taken over the groups - responding to their
posts is the problem.

Killfile is the solution.

I disagree. Erskine mania has taken over the groups - responding to his
posts is the problem.

Killfile is the solution.

About Alan Erskine


Alan Erskine is a well known Australian netkook, psychopath, and coward
who lives in Melbourne. He usually stalks and harasses the posters of the
sci.space groups, although he is known to make excursions into a wide range
of other groups for the purposes of trolling and stalking and harassing the
participants there. He is currently under investigation by the authorities
in Australia. If you fall victim to his frequent attacks and
stalking/harassment campaigns, like so many in the sci.space groups have,
notify . This psycho is dangerous.

Most sane participants have been forced to killfile him for his frequent
violent outbursts at posters and his unrelenting attacks. Some are taking
legal action against him.

Here are just a few of his victims. He has been stalking and harrasing
Scott and Betty Grissom relentlessly. Scott Grissom is the son of Gus
Grissom, the second American in space, who died in an Apollo 1 training
exercise fire, and Betty Grissom, 75, is his widow.

Alan has also been waging long-time stalking and harassment campaigns
against other well-known members of the space community, including Richard
Katz of NASA, John Maxson, and his sons Paul and Daniel Maxson.

He has been known to stalk his victims anonymously and via sock puppets,
showing what a coward he is. Furthermore, he likes to challenge people to
fights, telling them to come to Melbourne and look him up in the phone
book, while having admitted elsewhere that he is not listed in the phone
book. Coward!

Alan is an enemy of freedom of speech and hates remailers, which serve a
useful and necessary purpose. He has resorted to impersonating others and
even himself through remailers in an effort to discredit remailers and make
it look like others were attacking him through them. He regularly bombards
remailer operators with hysterical complaints and threats and floods their
mailboxes.

Alan is currently on one of his psychotic crusades, this time to get people
to killfile posts from remailers in order to prevent word of his misdeeds
from getting out. Alan is a Nazi, he wants to be able to say whatever he
wants about others but doesn't want anyone to mention him. He wants to
express himself freely but wants to shut others up and, not only that,
wants others to do as he says, read only the messages he approves of, etc.
He wants to police, rule, and control newsgroups and people like the
perfect little jackbooted Nazi he is.

Alan is not just content to harass his victims in the newsgroups, he
usually also stalks them via email. If you find yourself on the receiving
end of Alan's famous psychotic emails, contact
immediately, as well as the law enforcement agencies in Melbourne,
Australia. This psycho is very violent. Do not attempt to reason
with him yourself, many others have tried and he does not respond to
reason. Let the authorities deal with him.

"OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org wrote
in message ...

...No, you specifically make a group that excludes *only* Maxsons and
other trolls, and doesn't stifle any other postings. This is where
.moderated failed, in that it wasn't specific in this aspect. It
suffers from the same stigma that a lot of other moderated groups
suffer from: fear of posting as you normally would and having yourself
banned by a moderator who hasn't a clue and/or has a corncob stuck up
their butt.

...sci.space.hors, anyone?

I didn't know that .moderated was like that. I had read that it was made
mainly in response to fresh, steaming Maxson being splattered everywhere, so
I figured it would be like here, without the bull****-as-an-art-form
circular 51L postings (which I unfortunately took part in). How 'bout
sci.space.shuttle.noloonies?

"Terrence Daniels" wrote in
message link.net...
"OM" om@our_blessed_lady_mary_of_the_holy_NASA_researc h_facility.org
wrote
in message ...

...No, you specifically make a group that excludes *only* Maxsons and
other trolls, and doesn't stifle any other postings. This is where
.moderated failed, in that it wasn't specific in this aspect. It
suffers from the same stigma that a lot of other moderated groups
suffer from: fear of posting as you normally would and having yourself
banned by a moderator who hasn't a clue and/or has a corncob stuck up
their butt.

...sci.space.hors, anyone?

I didn't know that .moderated was like that. I had read that it was made
mainly in response to fresh, steaming Maxson being splattered everywhere,
so
I figured it would be like here, without the bull****-as-an-art-form
circular 51L postings (which I unfortunately took part in). How 'bout
sci.space.shuttle.noloonies?

We're all damn loonies - so it'd be very very quiet in there

Doug

"Terrence Daniels" wrote in
message link.net...
"Doug Ellison" wrote in message
...
OK - moron maxon and his lying child have taken over the newsgroup
again.
Now I'm not sure of US law on the issue - but I'm fairly sure that
making
the claims that he does are way out of line.

Out of line, sure. But illegal? No.
Do US rights protect him from an angry mob of pygmees too ? I heard they are
getting terribly annoyed over there too

-kert