nuclear space engine - would it work ??

"Robert Kolker" wrote in message
. ..
A misuse of the interstate commerce clause has permitted Congress to do
all sorts of mischief. Google Wickard Departmant Agriculture for an
egregious example.

In 1985, I worked for Hardees. I wish I had stolen a poster hanging in what
passed for a break room. It showed the *then* regulations governing a fast
foot hamburger. There were 600 regulations governing the pickle alone.

Now, I can see things concerning, say, salinization, for safety. However,
the government had no business at all regulating the thickness of the
pickle. Some people like thick pickles, some people like thin pickles, and
some people don't care at all. If it matters to a particular customer, they
can ask for thick or thin pickles, and if the food vendor refuses to comply
with the request, then the customer has the option to go to another place
that offers what they want. The free market can resolve the pickle thickness
issue on its own. *Why* are there any regulations on fast food pickle
thickness?

"Herb Schaltegger" wrote in
message
Take a ConLaw class Scott.

I *did*, Herb.


The Preamble provides the justification or rationale for the action,
Article I provides the power to take the action (the "all other
purposes" clause

Said clause *also including* a "foregoing powers" statement, coming right
after a list of powers for Congress. You keep forgetting to include that
part.

Congress is explicitly empowered to create enabling legislation for all
branches of government.

*Yes it is* and I haven't said otherwise. *All* I have said is that Congress
doesn't have the power to pass a law for anything that Congress feels like
passing a law for, and what you call the "all other powers" clause shows
that.

"David Spain" wrote in message
news:FZeZg.3491$4T6.1738@trnddc02...
Scott Hedrick wrote:
Besides, that is *not* a power specifically allocated to Congress- it's
an explanation as to why the Constitution was created. If the "general
welfare" clause were a power allocated to government, then the President
or even the Supreme Court could create a space program by executive or
judicial decision, since the preamble would cover them as well.

The power in Article I that is relevant is the power to make statutory
law.

Article I also includes a *broad list* of things which Congress is empowered
to makes laws about. Congress *does not have the power* to make laws
willy-nilly.

"David Spain" wrote in message
news:LShZg.3509$4T6.2844@trnddc02...
The Constitution cannot "prevent" Congress from passing any law it wants.
It cannot look into the future and declare which future sessions of
Congress
are invalid.

No, but it can, *and does*, state what Congress has the authority to do.
It's just a piece of paper, so obviously it can't get up out of its frame,
march before the President of the Senate and Speaker of the House, and wave
its clauses at them. Congress can and does ignore the law on occasion.

"Herb Schaltegger" wrote in
message .com...
Oh, and you're right about the Court's power to strike down
legislation. That's been established for nigh on 200 years now.

I've come to believe that the only reason this wasn't spelled out in the
Constitution is that it seemed obvious to the founders, and so they didn't
think of writing it down. It's clearly a necessary power, and it seems like
too much power to hand to the executive. Inherent in the ability to pass a
law is the ability to pass another striking down the first, so Congress
already had it, but unless another branch also had it, there wouldn't be
enough checks and balances to counter Congress. So, it rightly fell to the
Supremes.

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...

I wish they would get around to striking down that "Patriot Act" one of
these days. :-(

Pat, if I could change the Constitution, it would be to include a list of
words which could not be used in the title of a bill (and which would
require mandatory censure for any Congresscritter that referred to the bill,
in public, in committee or anywhere on or off the record, who used those
words as a name for the bill, formally or informally). Said list would
include "Patriot", "Children", "Child", "Pornography", "Spam", and a lot
more, and include unlisted related words and acronyms that spell out a
forbidden word. Call something the "Children's Protection Act" and it's hard
to say anything against it, no matter what it does.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Now the gross instabilities have been
dealt with.

Yes- I added you back to the killfile.

"Scott Hedrick" wrote in message
...

"David Spain" wrote in message
news:LShZg.3509$4T6.2844@trnddc02...
The Constitution cannot "prevent" Congress from passing any law it wants.
It cannot look into the future and declare which future sessions of
Congress
are invalid.

No, but it can, *and does*, state what Congress has the authority to do.
It's just a piece of paper, so obviously it can't get up out of its frame,
march before the President of the Senate and Speaker of the House, and
wave its clauses at them.

With clauses bared and articles raised ... :-)

"Neil Gerace" wrote in message
...

"Scott Hedrick" wrote in message
...

"David Spain" wrote in message
news:LShZg.3509$4T6.2844@trnddc02...
The Constitution cannot "prevent" Congress from passing any law it
wants.
It cannot look into the future and declare which future sessions of
Congress
are invalid.

No, but it can, *and does*, state what Congress has the authority to do.
It's just a piece of paper, so obviously it can't get up out of its
frame, march before the President of the Senate and Speaker of the House,
and wave its clauses at them.

With clauses bared and articles raised ... :-)

ISTR a Superman comic in which some nutjob stole the Constitution and
Declaration of Independence, and as a result, we Americans began to fall
apart, so that eventually said nutjob wanted to become king of America. Once
the documents were restored to their rightful place, the spirit of America
prevailed.

While it made for an interesting story, it's clear the writers thought that
the documents were magical, and cast a spell on the people so that we would
behave in a democratic spirit. Completely killed the suspension of disbelief
for me. There's no magical power inherent in the documents, just rational
thought from rational people who believed that future generations would also
continue to be rational. Essentially, the spirit of America is communal
thought for individual benefit.

Scott Hedrick wrote:
No, but it can, *and does*, state what Congress has the authority to do.
It's just a piece of paper, so obviously it can't get up out of its frame,
march before the President of the Senate and Speaker of the House, and wave
its clauses at them. Congress can and does ignore the law on occasion.

I think we're at the point of splitting hairs.

Perhaps the only difference in our view points is in the interpretation of
Article I Section 8 para 1. Which grants Congress the power to provide for
the General Welfare. I consider this phrase to be fully independent and
self sufficient. I do not believe that the 17 powers enumerated afterwards
were intended to in any way to define or restrict the phrase in para. 1.
I believe if that were the intent, it would have said so right there
in the language. The framers were *very* aware of how to word legal documents
in their time, this is not an oversight. I do not know why the 17 enumerated
powers are listed. Perhaps the framers gave some particular weight to those
specific powers because of their benefits to the newly established country
and to help establish some priorities for the first Congress. The answer,
if there is one, lies in the Federalist Papers.

[...in a different post...]

ISTR a Superman comic in which some nutjob stole the Constitution and
Declaration of Independence, and as a result, we Americans began to fall
apart,

[snip]
While it made for an interesting story, it's clear the writers thought that
the documents [Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution] were magical,
and cast a spell on the people so that we would
behave in a democratic spirit. Completely killed the suspension of disbelief
for me. There's no magical power inherent in the documents, just rational
thought from rational people who believed that future generations would also
continue to be rational. Essentially, the spirit of America is communal
thought for individual benefit.

Agreed. Strange to find that in a Superman comic, "...truth, justice and the
American Way." To me "The American Way" has always meant common sense,
rational thinking by a self-enlightened, well-educated people of reason,
completely capable of deriving those documents from first principles on their
own. Our founding fathers expected no less.

Dave