How do you pronounce Pleiades?

Mike Collins:
However since it has been resurrected it's Ply a dees rhyming with Hyades
in UK English.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...glish/pleiades

Davoud:
Odd, that, even allowing for frequent differences between American and
British English. On both sides of the Atlantic we agree that "ei" is
/generally/ pronounced as a long "a." Witness "rein," "seine," "feign,"
"deign," "heinous," "neigh," et al. I think that the OED was overly
influenced by Greek. The Oxford American Dictionary has it as
play-a-deez."

Mike Collins:
I find it strange as well but I never met anybody in the UK who used the
other pronunciation. Also I would have thought the German descended US
citizens would have held on to the "ei" equals eye pronunciation.
As one of my German teaches always said "Never say die, say dee".
On my first visit to the USA I was surprised by many of the differences you
don't see in films and TV programmes. "Erbs" instead of Herbs was the most
surprising.

Remember that the last wave of German immigration was 100 years ago.

As for "erbs," we got that from you--the Oxford American dictionary
note that pronunciation without the "h" was common in Britain until the
19th century. You're the h droppers. So you should ask yourself why the
Brits decided to restore the "h" to "herbs," and why you didn't notify
us. There are, by the way, a few Americans who pronounce the "h" and
many others who don't know if they should pronounce the "h" or not.
"Don't forget to add the herbs or erbs or however you say it."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:15:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 6:51:12 AM UTC-5, Mike Collins wrote:
Mike Collins wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, ddouglas wrote:
... and down here in Texas we say Plaay-ahhh-daees :-) said very slowly.

(just kidding)

Allan Tingey wrote in message ...
How do you pronounce Pleiades?

why would anyone from or in texas need to use that word?


Why resurrect a thread from the last century?




However since it has been resurrected it's Ply a dees rhyming with Hyades
in UK English.



http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...glish/pleiades

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJa5sok-TlU

The Greeks and Americans are right, the Oxford Dictionary wrong.

Very presumptuous of you, it seems to me.

The problem here is that almost all of the 'named' objects in the sky got those names in antiquity, and they have been passed down verbally over thousands and thousand of years... and there can be no certainly as to how the ancient Greeks or Arabs or Chinese pronounced (or spelled, for that matter) them.

I'm quite sure that there is no one in England who knows for certain just how Shakespeare pronounced many words that we still speak today. I'm sure that there are scholars equipped to take an educated guess, but that's all it is, in the end, a guess.

When is comes to astronomical objects, I never 'correct' anyone anymore (but I used to) because I came to realize that there is no one alive that is expert enough to know for sure which pronunciation is 'correct'... because there *is* no correct pronunciation. However you choose to say it is fine with me.

Unless, of course, you just like to argue about whether the horse is actually dead or not.

Davoud wrote:
Mike Collins:
However since it has been resurrected it's Ply a dees rhyming with Hyades
in UK English.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...glish/pleiades

Davoud:
Odd, that, even allowing for frequent differences between American and
British English. On both sides of the Atlantic we agree that "ei" is
/generally/ pronounced as a long "a." Witness "rein," "seine," "feign,"
"deign," "heinous," "neigh," et al. I think that the OED was overly
influenced by Greek. The Oxford American Dictionary has it as
play-a-deez."

Mike Collins:
I find it strange as well but I never met anybody in the UK who used the
other pronunciation. Also I would have thought the German descended US
citizens would have held on to the "ei" equals eye pronunciation.
As one of my German teaches always said "Never say die, say dee".
On my first visit to the USA I was surprised by many of the differences you
don't see in films and TV programmes. "Erbs" instead of Herbs was the most
surprising.

Remember that the last wave of German immigration was 100 years ago.

As for "erbs," we got that from you--the Oxford American dictionary
note that pronunciation without the "h" was common in Britain until the
19th century. You're the h droppers. So you should ask yourself why the
Brits decided to restore the "h" to "herbs," and why you didn't notify
us. There are, by the way, a few Americans who pronounce the "h" and
many others who don't know if they should pronounce the "h" or not.
"Don't forget to add the herbs or erbs or however you say it."

Actually we're the H adders here,

Languages often develop by simplifying. In Britain strong verbs were slowly
replaced by weak. Dove was replaced by dived. Some parts of US language
seem quaint to the British eg atop (on top of), gotten is "got" in the UK.
US innovations in the language are absorbed in Britain or ignored and it's
hard to foresee which.

palsing wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 4:15:19 AM UTC-8, wrote:
On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 6:51:12 AM UTC-5, Mike Collins wrote:
Mike Collins wrote:
wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, ddouglas wrote:
... and down here in Texas we say Plaay-ahhh-daees :-) said very slowly.

(just kidding)

Allan Tingey wrote in message ...
How do you pronounce Pleiades?

why would anyone from or in texas need to use that word?


Why resurrect a thread from the last century?




However since it has been resurrected it's Ply a dees rhyming with Hyades
in UK English.



http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/de...glish/pleiades

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJa5sok-TlU

The Greeks and Americans are right, the Oxford Dictionary wrong.

Very presumptuous of you, it seems to me.

The problem here is that almost all of the 'named' objects in the sky got
those names in antiquity, and they have been passed down verbally over
thousands and thousand of years... and there can be no certainly as to
how the ancient Greeks or Arabs or Chinese pronounced (or spelled, for that matter) them.

I'm quite sure that there is no one in England who knows for certain just
how Shakespeare pronounced many words that we still speak today. I'm sure
that there are scholars equipped to take an educated guess, but that's
all it is, in the end, a guess.

When is comes to astronomical objects, I never 'correct' anyone anymore
(but I used to) because I came to realize that there is no one alive that
is expert enough to know for sure which pronunciation is 'correct'...
because there *is* no correct pronunciation. However you choose to say it is fine with me.

Unless, of course, you just like to argue about whether the horse is actually dead or not.


From the rhymes etc it seems certain that a modern Englishman would have
thought Shakespeare's speech to be closer to American or Irish than English
accents.

Mike Collins:
He was wrong about Betelgeuse as well.

Most of the world is wrong about Betelgeuse. As an Arabic speaker, I
took pains to discuss this with astronomers and scholars during the 10+
years that I lived in the Middle East and North Africa. That doesn't
prove that the following is right, but it is the consensus among the
Arab astronomers and scholars of classical Arabic with whom I talked.

(Using English equivalents) the difference between the Arabic "Y" and
"B" is that the "Y" has two dots under it and the "B" has one. It is
probable that a mediaeval European transcriber was working from a
well-worn Arabic text and failed to see the second dot; perhaps it had
worn off or faded away. Yed a-Jawz came out as "Bed" (or "Bud")
al-Jawz. Available records showed that there was no such phrase in
Arabic as Bed al-Jawz, but European scholars stuck with the word and
assigned meanings to "Bed," most commonly "shoulder." (The Arabic word
for shoulder is "kitf.") Bed al-Jawz morphed into Betelgeuse.

"Yed" can mean "hand" or "arm." In Yed al-Jawz it means "Arm of the
Giant." The three words literally mean "arm the giant" but this is a
construct phrase, something extremely common in Semitic languages, and
it is /construed/ to mean "arm belonging to the giant" or "arm of the
giant." This is the same mechanism by which the prefix Abd ul...
"servant of..." gets attached to one of the 99 attributes of Allah to
form a name. "Abdul-Jabbar" = "Servant of the Irresistible."

So how do you pronounce Betelgeuse? Yed al-Jawz, where "Jawz" rhymes
with "cows."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

Allan Tingey wrote in message ...
How do you pronounce Pleiades?

"Subaru"

Davoud wrote:
Mike Collins:
He was wrong about Betelgeuse as well.

Most of the world is wrong about Betelgeuse. As an Arabic speaker, I
took pains to discuss this with astronomers and scholars during the 10+
years that I lived in the Middle East and North Africa. That doesn't
prove that the following is right, but it is the consensus among the
Arab astronomers and scholars of classical Arabic with whom I talked.

(Using English equivalents) the difference between the Arabic "Y" and
"B" is that the "Y" has two dots under it and the "B" has one. It is
probable that a mediaeval European transcriber was working from a
well-worn Arabic text and failed to see the second dot; perhaps it had
worn off or faded away. Yed a-Jawz came out as "Bed" (or "Bud")
al-Jawz. Available records showed that there was no such phrase in
Arabic as Bed al-Jawz, but European scholars stuck with the word and
assigned meanings to "Bed," most commonly "shoulder." (The Arabic word
for shoulder is "kitf.") Bed al-Jawz morphed into Betelgeuse.

"Yed" can mean "hand" or "arm." In Yed al-Jawz it means "Arm of the
Giant." The three words literally mean "arm the giant" but this is a
construct phrase, something extremely common in Semitic languages, and
it is /construed/ to mean "arm belonging to the giant" or "arm of the
giant." This is the same mechanism by which the prefix Abd ul...
"servant of..." gets attached to one of the 99 attributes of Allah to
form a name. "Abdul-Jabbar" = "Servant of the Irresistible."

So how do you pronounce Betelgeuse? Yed al-Jawz, where "Jawz" rhymes
with "cows."


That's a lot better than Patrick Moore's baytelgerrz.
But I can't see anyone changing their pronunciation now.

On Wednesday, March 2, 2016 at 12:41:18 PM UTC-8, Davoud wrote:
Mike Collins:
He was wrong about Betelgeuse as well.

Most of the world is wrong about Betelgeuse. As an Arabic speaker, I
took pains to discuss this with astronomers and scholars during the 10+
years that I lived in the Middle East and North Africa. That doesn't
prove that the following is right, but it is the consensus among the
Arab astronomers and scholars of classical Arabic with whom I talked.

(Using English equivalents) the difference between the Arabic "Y" and
"B" is that the "Y" has two dots under it and the "B" has one. It is
probable that a mediaeval European transcriber was working from a
well-worn Arabic text and failed to see the second dot; perhaps it had
worn off or faded away. Yed a-Jawz came out as "Bed" (or "Bud")
al-Jawz. Available records showed that there was no such phrase in
Arabic as Bed al-Jawz, but European scholars stuck with the word and
assigned meanings to "Bed," most commonly "shoulder." (The Arabic word
for shoulder is "kitf.") Bed al-Jawz morphed into Betelgeuse.

"Yed" can mean "hand" or "arm." In Yed al-Jawz it means "Arm of the
Giant." The three words literally mean "arm the giant" but this is a
construct phrase, something extremely common in Semitic languages, and
it is /construed/ to mean "arm belonging to the giant" or "arm of the
giant." This is the same mechanism by which the prefix Abd ul...
"servant of..." gets attached to one of the 99 attributes of Allah to
form a name. "Abdul-Jabbar" = "Servant of the Irresistible."

So how do you pronounce Betelgeuse? Yed al-Jawz, where "Jawz" rhymes
with "cows."

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm

Great story! Thanks for this.

On Wed, 02 Mar 2016 15:41:15 -0500, Davoud wrote:

Mike Collins:
He was wrong about Betelgeuse as well.

Most of the world is wrong about Betelgeuse. As an Arabic speaker, I
took pains to discuss this with astronomers and scholars during the 10+
years that I lived in the Middle East and North Africa. That doesn't
prove that the following is right, but it is the consensus among the
Arab astronomers and scholars of classical Arabic with whom I talked.

(Using English equivalents) the difference between the Arabic "Y" and
"B" is that the "Y" has two dots under it and the "B" has one. It is
probable that a mediaeval European transcriber was working from a
well-worn Arabic text and failed to see the second dot; perhaps it had
worn off or faded away. Yed a-Jawz came out as "Bed" (or "Bud")
al-Jawz. Available records showed that there was no such phrase in
Arabic as Bed al-Jawz, but European scholars stuck with the word and
assigned meanings to "Bed," most commonly "shoulder." (The Arabic word
for shoulder is "kitf.") Bed al-Jawz morphed into Betelgeuse.

"Yed" can mean "hand" or "arm." In Yed al-Jawz it means "Arm of the
Giant." The three words literally mean "arm the giant" but this is a
construct phrase, something extremely common in Semitic languages, and
it is /construed/ to mean "arm belonging to the giant" or "arm of the
giant." This is the same mechanism by which the prefix Abd ul...
"servant of..." gets attached to one of the 99 attributes of Allah to
form a name. "Abdul-Jabbar" = "Servant of the Irresistible."

So how do you pronounce Betelgeuse? Yed al-Jawz, where "Jawz" rhymes
with "cows."

Enjoyed your comments.
Thank you.
--
Email address is a Spam trap.

On Tuesday, March 1, 2016 at 7:12:15 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 28, 1999 at 12:00:00 AM UTC-7, ddouglas wrote:
... and down here in Texas we say Plaay-ahhh-daees :-) said very slowly.

(just kidding)

Allan Tingey wrote in message ...
How do you pronounce Pleiades?

why would anyone from or in texas need to use that word?

For starters, anyone in these clubs:

http://www.go-astronomy.com/astro-cl...e.php?State=TX

Or who visit these planetaria:

http://www.go-astronomy.com/planetar...e.php?State=TX