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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
[Repost with typo fixed. Original at
. com] From Ian St. John: Stuf4 wrote: snip ... while at the same time celebrating July 4th, 1776, as the birth date of the United States of America. The fourth of July is "Independence Day", not "Union Day". The holiday is to celebrate independence, not union. snip Not knowing the name of the July 4th holiday is just another example of why you should return to civics classes. By the way, there are many facts from history that civics classes teach in error. For example, there are *extremely few people* who know precisely what July 4th celebrates. While I had stated previously that the Declaration of Independence serves as the "birth certificate" of the United States, the actual moment of birth occurred well before this certificate was signed: It was July _2nd_ that Congress declared independence from Great Britain. Far less famous than the celebrated document drafted by Thomas Jefferson was the formal "resolution for independency" that was passed by Congress on July 2nd. Here is that resolution that served to establish the birth of the nation: (Introduced by Richard Henry Lee of Virginia and seconded by John Adams.) ************************************************** ******************** The Com. of the whole Congress to whom was reported the resolution and =x=x the _Declaration_ supporting independence. 17 united Resolved That these ^ colonies are and of right ought to be free and independent states; that they are absolved from all allegiance to the british crown and that all political connection between them and the state of great Britain is and ought to be totally dissolved Report July 2.1776 no 5} The resolution for [signatures] independency agreed to July 2. 1776 |||||||||||| _________ 90 81 96 96 ----- 383 64 ************************************************** ******************** More at- http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall.../declarat.html Photocopy- http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall...ls/decreso.jpg Notes: =x=x indicates a word that was crossed out. "Com." is the abbreviation for Committee. Here's what John Adams wrote on July 3rd, 1776: "The Second Day of July 1776 will be the most memorable Epocha, in the History of America. ... It ought to be solemnized with Pomp and Parade, with Shews, Games, Sports, Guns, Bells, Bonfires, and Illuminations from one End of this Continent to the other from this Time forward forever more." Another gauge on how effective civics classes are on teaching accurate history is Delaware's silly claim as being "The First State". Yes, Delaware was first to sign up to the second republic of the United States (current government), but the colonies clearly asserted their status as united states with their declaration for independence. The story of Caesar Rodney barely making it to this July 2nd vote as commemorated on the Delaware quarter clearly tells how Delaware was "tail end Charlie", hardly the first state of the union. Check how confused the state's own website of "Delaware Facts" is: http://www.state.de.us/gic/facts/history/delfact.htm "Statehood: December 7, 1787" ....followed by: "Delaware became a state in 1776, just two months after the signing of the Declaration of Independence." Ratification of the Constitution did nothing to change Delaware's status of being a state of the United States. So why, one might ask, didn't Delaware become a state the instant it declared it's independence from England? It is an obscure fact that it's status as an "original colony" was in fact just a few counties that were *still a part of Pennsylvania*. Delaware did not instantly become a state because both before and after Caesar Rodney's historic vote for independence on July 2nd, Delaware was ruled by Pennsylvania, from Pennsylvania. So there were several weeks where those three counties were independent from Great Britain, but *not* independent from its seat of government in Philadelphia. On top of this story of Delaware being last, there's the story of Rhode Island being first, with it's government declaring independence from Great Britain on May 4th (two months *before* July 2nd). And then there's the story of how New York delegates held off from voting for independence on that historic date of July 2nd. The vote in New York was held on July 9th: "...it was here on July 9th, 1776, that General George Washington stood with the Continental Army and listened to the Declaration of Independence read aloud, just a few hours after it was ratified by New York State's provisional Congress." (http://www.nyc.gov/html/rwg/html/99b/challpark.html) Recap: - One state was born on May 4th, 1776 (RI), - 10 more states were born on July 2nd, 1776 with these 11 states constituting a new country, - New York voted to join on July 9th (making 12), - ...and then the three lower counties of Pennsylvania followed that up several weeks later by breaking ties to the State of Pennsylvania, becoming the State of Delaware (making a total of 13). The Fourth of July does not mark a date that commemorates *any* of these events. So much for "the Unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America" being fixed to the date of July 4th. ~ CT |
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
From Dave Schneider:
(Stuf4) wrote snip For example, there are *extremely few people* who know precisely what July 4th celebrates. While I had stated previously that the Declaration of Independence serves as the "birth certificate" of the United States, the actual moment of birth occurred well before this certificate was signed: It was July _2nd_ that Congress declared independence from Great Britain. But the official release of the Declaration of Independence was delayed 2 days to allow the printer to actually make a few copies, so the date officially became July 4. I don't know where you got that info from. The document you are talking about did not get completed until July 4th[*] after long debate over the points it raised. And the record from Congress shows that it was authorized for immediate release. Let's be clear that we are talking about two separate pieces of legislation, both known as declarations of independence: - The Declaration of Independence introduced by Richard Henry Lee that was passed on July 2nd, and - The separate document approved on July 4th known as the Declaration of Independence (of Thomas Jefferson fame). The Congressional approval of the July 4th document did absolutely nothing to change the legal status of the United States of America as an independent country. It served as an explanation for the action taken on July 2nd (an event which has since faded into obscurity). [*]- Even the completed Declaration of July 4th had its words subsequently altered. The original text is shown here in the Dunlap Broadside: http://www.ushistory.org/declaration...ent/dunlap.htm "IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776. A DECLARATION BY THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, IN GENERAL CONGRESS ASSEMBLED. Subsequently changed to: "IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776. The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America" As noted previously, New York did not vote on either July 2nd or the 4th, so there was no unanimity until days after. Here is what led to the change: Resolved, That the Declaration passed on the 4th, be fairly engrossed on parchment, with the title and stile of "The unanimous declaration of the thirteen United States of America," and that the same, when engrossed, be signed by every member of Congress. Journals of the Continental Congress, 1774-1789 FRIDAY, JULY 19, 1776 http://tinyurl.com/yscbf http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field(DOCID+@lit(jc00538)): ~ CT |
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
From Scott Hedrick:
(Stuf4) wrote By the way, there are many facts from history that civics classes teach in error. Based on the accuracy of your posts here and your absolute refusal to learn from your errors, you must teach a civics class. Those with rigid modes of thinking will tend to view nonconformal information as erroneous, regardless of its accuracy. ~ CT |
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space se
(Stuf4)
Those with rigid modes of thinking will tend to view nonconformal information as erroneous, regardless of its accuracy. However, given that the simplest explanation is almost always the correct one, you're probably just erroneous. DF |
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
Resolved, That the committee, to prepare the declaration, consist of
five members: The members chosen, Mr. [Thomas] Jefferson, Mr. J[ohn] Adams, Mr. [Benjamin] Franklin, Mr. [Roger] Sherman, and Mr. R[obert] R. Livingston. .... Jefferson drafted the statement of independence for the colonies between June 11 and 28. Adams and Franklin made some changes. The draft of the Declaration of Independence was presented to Congress on July 2nd. Also, on July 2nd, Congress formally adopted the first section of Lee's resolution. The actual Declaration went through the congressional revision process on July 3rd and 4th. The Declaration was adopted on July 4th. This sounds like so many committees I've been on. One person does the bulk of the work, two of them make changes (often contridictory), and the rest just show up for the donuts (if at all). At least there wasn't someone there saying "this stinks, you're doing it all wrong" while failing to contribute their own ideas. (Did Sherman or Livingston actually work on the document?) |
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
"Ami Silberman" wrote in message ... At least there wasn't someone there saying "this stinks, you're doing it all wrong" while failing to contribute their own ideas. They didn't have Usenet |
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The Fourth of July does Not mark the date of Independence [ When will we be able to afford space settlement?]
In article ,
Ami Silberman wrote: This sounds like so many committees I've been on. One person does the bulk of the work, two of them make changes (often contridictory), and the rest just show up for the donuts (if at all)... In practice, that's the only way to get results. Committees have some uses for reviewing documents, but collective authorship doesn't work unless the document is big enough and structured enough that well-defined pieces of it can be farmed out to individuals. To actually write something coherent, you need to send one or two people off into a corner to do it. (Maybe three at the outside, but even that is less workable, and when it does work, you usually find out that two of them did the work and the third just reviewed and commented.) -- "Think outside the box -- the box isn't our friend." | Henry Spencer -- George Herbert | |
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