A Space & astronomy forum. SpaceBanter.com

Go Back   Home » SpaceBanter.com forum » Astronomy and Astrophysics » Amateur Astronomy
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old August 16th 17, 07:19 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Quadibloc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,018
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

At least, so this news story suggests:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...tephen-hawking

And quantum computers will wreak havoc when they become available:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...mputer-physics

I knew that the Daily Express was a tabloid newspaper, but I didn't realize it was
moving in the direction of an American "supermarket tabloid".

John Savard
  #2  
Old August 16th 17, 09:36 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,001
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On Wednesday, 16 August 2017 08:19:30 UTC+2, Quadibloc wrote:
At least, so this news story suggests:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...tephen-hawking

And quantum computers will wreak havoc when they become available:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...mputer-physics

I knew that the Daily Express was a tabloid newspaper, but I didn't realize it was
moving in the direction of an American "supermarket tabloid".

John Savard


If they use AI to solve the problem of news typos I'd be happier.

AI, of itself, may not be the real problem. It will be The Great Thinning which follows. When the majority of present employment is conducted by robots plus AI plus printing.

It is difficult to see how such a huge revolution in employment will be balanced by employment in any new technological revolution. Those with two brain cells to rub together will be affected this time. Not just those who can use a manual bucket and spade.

China is likely to soon go bust, on the mass movement of all production to slave wage + robots in Africa. That will leave another huge black hole in the world's ability to employ the dexterous billions in simple, repetitive, human work.

Though they'll probably have to put the factories underground or underwater by then because much of the surface won't be habitable. The present, dire prognoses may indeed lead to a dystopic future. It may even be worse than the present one! Meaning all those who do not enjoy a middle calls existence in a modern Western democracy. Meaning most people on this planet.

If nobody is working then nobody is paying income tax. The wealthy owners of a million AI robots aren't going to want to pay income taxes. Just to give the biologicals lifelong social security and pay for their spiraling health care? Dream on.

If nobody is working then there won't be any disposable income to buy goods.. Who will be the customers for robotic production if nobody can afford anything beyond rationed, food stamps? Or buying on the black market from local warlords?

Most technological society's must eventually hit this AI/robotics/printing wall.
Which may explain the total lack of visitors. Because no society has ever managed to overcome the AI hurdle. Or were unable to change the mindset of their foolishly inadequate "leadership." Many of whom still seem to think autocracy is the only way to ensure their own personal survival.

Look where that got the royal families of the world. And their poor serfs over the long centuries. Our methods of leadership has always ensured a technological revolution must also mean a societal one. Which means going against their own unearned demand for unflinching loyalty and unquestioned authority. The Present "Big Money players" also think just like royalty in anything but name. They work to exactly the same god-given rights and the same rigid, coldly sociopathic rules!
  #3  
Old August 16th 17, 10:55 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 189
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On 16/08/2017 07:19, Quadibloc wrote:
At least, so this news story suggests:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...tephen-hawking


They are basically right about that.
But the universe is very very big and they have to find it first!

And quantum computers will wreak havoc when they become available:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scienc...mputer-physics

I knew that the Daily Express was a tabloid newspaper, but I didn't realize it was
moving in the direction of an American "supermarket tabloid".


It is modelled on them. Circulation first truth second.
Pandering to the lowest common denominator. The Sun is even worse.

Even The Times is pretty dodgy where science journalism is concerned.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #4  
Old August 16th 17, 03:00 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Davoud[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,989
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

Quadibloc:

At least, so this news story suggests...


Nope. If they're technologically advanced they are looking for us using
the same techniques we are using to look for them. Their chances of
finding a tiny spacecraft in a vast galaxy are vanishingly small. And
they are governed by general relativity and thermodynamics. They will
never travel to Earth and we will never travel to them.

I knew that the Daily Express was a tabloid newspaper...


So you knew everything important about the D.E.

--
I agree with almost everything that you have said and almost everything that
you will say in your entire life.

usenet *at* davidillig dawt cawm
  #5  
Old August 16th 17, 03:42 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:00:23 -0400, Davoud wrote:

Quadibloc:

At least, so this news story suggests...


Nope. If they're technologically advanced they are looking for us using
the same techniques we are using to look for them. Their chances of
finding a tiny spacecraft in a vast galaxy are vanishingly small. And
they are governed by general relativity and thermodynamics. They will
never travel to Earth and we will never travel to them.


What I'd say is that they would be so close that if they had the
capacity to make interstellar journeys, they'd already have been here.

I don't think there's any reason to think an advanced civilization
couldn't visit other stars. If you're culturally stable, what does it
matter if it takes thousands or tens of thousands of years? I imagine
they'd do it robotically, though (assuming that the civilization
hasn't become a machine intelligence itself).

Of course, that assumes there are advanced technological
civilizations, which I'm inclined to doubt.
  #6  
Old August 17th 17, 07:05 AM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,001
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On Wednesday, 16 August 2017 16:42:58 UTC+2, Chris L Peterson wrote:

Of course, that assumes there are advanced technological
civilizations, which I'm inclined to doubt.


No doubt, if 'We' survive, 'We' shall recognise a series of hurdles.
Which each advancing civilization must endure to acquire real progress for the vast majority of humans and all other species.

Not least we need a far better way of organizing the human race.
Not only to incentivize each and every able member to contribute constructively.
But to decouple leadership from the inevitable corruption which coldly embraces all power.

No form of political governance, across the complete spectrum tried so far, works remotely as intended.
There are just not enough moral human beings with the ability to lead even a One Man Band.

Once ensconced in their ivory towers none can ever recognise their own glaring inadequacies.
Nor can they ever be removed without damage to the organization and the innocent.

Our fear of AI recognizes our weaknesses and inability to restrain those with other than the most perfect motives.
How could AI NOT choose to eradicate us for our own good?
There are no real heroes and no real saints on which to base their calculations for progress.

We are still stuck in the "what's in it for me?" mode.
As if any of us remember knowing real hardship and hunger ourselves.

Those who do suffer know that we instinctively distance ourselves from such hideous realities.
How else can we survive the violent onslaught of understanding their real suffering?
Why do the wealthy and powerful always reject their offspring marrying beneath them?
Because it might open a chink of light in their impenetrable armour against being reminded of other's truly awful reality.
How can a "designer industry" even exist amidst such horrors which encompass the entire globe?

What completely deranged fool can spend hundreds of millions on a daub? Or a marble palace? Or a solid gold faucet or watch? Or a million dollar car?
Yet still place themselves morally above all others less morally handicapped?

None of the rich and powerful has lifted themselves [remotely] above the tin pot tribal chief in his smoke filled, prehistoric, mud hut.
With bones and feathers and glittering shards of stone dangling at the eaves. Safely separating him from all his "inferiors."

Whom he always considers far too unworthy to be allowed food, warmth, healing and shelter.
While he lives in splendid isolation in his Louis 14th, prehistoric, mud hut with his trophy wives.
Dolling out laws and rules of behavior to others.
As befits his high status on his decorated **** and blood-stained throne.
And, as always, protected from all sides, by his loyal and sociopathic guards.
Who know exactly where their food scraps fall from his filthy, forever overloaded table.
  #7  
Old August 17th 17, 12:51 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Gary Harnagel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 659
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 8:42:58 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:00:23 -0400, Davoud wrote:

Quadibloc:

At least, so this news story suggests...


Nope. If they're technologically advanced they are looking for us using
the same techniques we are using to look for them. Their chances of
finding a tiny spacecraft in a vast galaxy are vanishingly small. And
they are governed by general relativity and thermodynamics. They will
never travel to Earth and we will never travel to them.


What I'd say is that they would be so close that if they had the
capacity to make interstellar journeys, they'd already have been here.


Maybe they have, but why would they upset an inferior civilization by
boldly presenting themselves?

I don't think there's any reason to think an advanced civilization
couldn't visit other stars. If you're culturally stable, what does it
matter if it takes thousands or tens of thousands of years?


Or a million years. The galaxy is 9 billion years old and planets are
plentiful. In fact, there's a 14-billion-year-old red dwarf a mere
150 lightyears away, and Proxima Centauri is known to have a planet in
the habitable zone. At 0.1c, a civilization could populate the galaxy
in a million years.

Of course, that assumes there are advanced technological
civilizations, which I'm inclined to doubt.


That's a rather dark opinion of intelligence :-)

But another civilization may have been found less than 1500 lightyears away:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KIC_8462852

Hmm, interesting. Previously, it was reported as being 1490 lightyears
away, now it's 1280. They found us and they're coming here ... with their
sun :-)

Considering the age of the universe, it seems to me a statistical certainty
that VERY old civilizations exist even in our own galaxy. MUCH older than
the alleged one at Tabby's star. Carl Sagan had that kind of perspective
which he presented in "Contact." I liked the passage in the movie (I don't
remember if it was in the novel, to): "This is the way it's been done for
billions of years."

So did Arthur Clarke:

“There may be millions of inhabited worlds circling other suns, harboring
beings who to us would seem godlike, with civilizations and cultures
beyond our wildest dreams.” -- Arthur C. Clarke
  #8  
Old August 17th 17, 01:17 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Martin Brown[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 189
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On 17/08/2017 12:51, Gary Harnagel wrote:
On Wednesday, August 16, 2017 at 8:42:58 AM UTC-6, Chris L Peterson wrote:

On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 10:00:23 -0400, Davoud wrote:

Quadibloc:

At least, so this news story suggests...

Nope. If they're technologically advanced they are looking for us using
the same techniques we are using to look for them. Their chances of
finding a tiny spacecraft in a vast galaxy are vanishingly small. And
they are governed by general relativity and thermodynamics. They will
never travel to Earth and we will never travel to them.


What I'd say is that they would be so close that if they had the
capacity to make interstellar journeys, they'd already have been here.


Maybe they have, but why would they upset an inferior civilization by
boldly presenting themselves?


To restock their space ship with fresh provisions - much like the
mariners of old did when they encountered a habitable island.

I don't think there's any reason to think an advanced civilization
couldn't visit other stars. If you're culturally stable, what does it
matter if it takes thousands or tens of thousands of years?


Or a million years. The galaxy is 9 billion years old and planets are
plentiful. In fact, there's a 14-billion-year-old red dwarf a mere
150 lightyears away, and Proxima Centauri is known to have a planet in
the habitable zone. At 0.1c, a civilization could populate the galaxy
in a million years.


The fastest manmade object is the Juno probe we have managed managed a
whopping 0.000013c or a shade under 40km/s. Even so they should have
populated the galaxy inside about 10 billion years at least in the sense
of self replicating Von Neumann probes or similar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-r...Neumann_probes

Chances are we haven't seen them because they are not there.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown
  #9  
Old August 17th 17, 02:19 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris.B[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,001
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On Thursday, 17 August 2017 14:17:23 UTC+2, Martin Brown wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-r...Neumann_probes

Chances are we haven't seen them because they are not there.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown


Is lunar tidal locking a clear indication of an outside observer's need for constant monitoring, of us?

Should we be looking for tidal locked moons as an indicator of a sentient race on the associated planets being monitored by outsiders? ;-)
  #10  
Old August 17th 17, 02:20 PM posted to sci.astro.amateur
Chris L Peterson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,007
Default Voyager Plaque May Guide Alien Invaders to Earth!

On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 04:51:01 -0700 (PDT), Gary Harnagel
wrote:

Of course, that assumes there are advanced technological
civilizations, which I'm inclined to doubt.


That's a rather dark opinion of intelligence :-)


Not at all. I just think that technological civilizations are likely
to be unstable and collapse young. Seems natural.

Considering the age of the universe, it seems to me a statistical certainty
that VERY old civilizations exist even in our own galaxy.


Not if they can never develop.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Message from ET Alien Invaders of Earth April 1, 2006 [email protected] Astronomy Misc 0 March 31st 06 11:22 PM
Field guide for confirming new earth-like planets described (Forwarded) Andrew Yee Astronomy Misc 0 September 7th 05 11:31 PM
Field guide for confirming new earth-like planets described (Forwarded) Andrew Yee News 0 September 7th 05 10:59 PM
Shoemaker got a plaque RichA Amateur Astronomy 3 June 5th 05 11:38 PM
The Pioneer plaque- improved O.H. Misc 1 October 28th 04 10:23 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2024 SpaceBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.