New Columbia loss report out today

To comment on my last message:

At the loss of signal at 13:59:32, the crew had had indications of
problems with landing gear, which would be a problem later on, but not a
sign of imminent loss of control.

Loss of comms is common and not unexpected, so they would have waited a
little while for them to come back before realising they were not coming
back.

13:59:37: crew aft flight deck might have noticed the "brightening
event". But it is not clear that they did. Remember that at that speed,
shedding stuff from the wing might generate a "flash" in the back of the
shuttle, but it is not a given that this would necessarily be seen from
the top windows of the orbiter since they would be illuminated by
plasma. Report make no mention of whether crew would have been aware of
bright flashes.

If depressurization started at he CE event (which coinsides with loss of
power), crew would be disoriented from lack of light and rapidly
changing attitude and G force (report thinks G force would have been
reduces as the forebody went ballistic while before, with the pitch up
attitde, they would have had up to 3G of deceleration).

What I do not know is whether crews on the middeck were on their first
flight or not, and wether the crew on the aft flight deck were on first
flight or not. I say this in context of whether one crew member could
tell the newbie that the condition was not normal. A newbie wouldn't
really know if the sensation of gravity was normal or not.

It is important to note that the report mentions that crews are often
dizzy during this phase. This might explain lack of action to close visors.


What I find so odd however is why the shuttle feeds the crew with pure
O2 when they close their visors. This seems to me like a big problem and
it should be feeding them normal cabin air so that visors could be
closed without problem.

John Doe wrote:

About the crews's knowledge of the problem. During the flight, Houston
had told the crew that the media had been told of a piece of foam
falling off and not to be susprised if media asked about it, but that
this was not a concern for the orbiter.

Timeline: (GMT) [delta time]

13:44:09 Start of Entry Interface EI (400,000 feet alt, mach 24)
....
13:53:45 Estimate of first debris shedding (ground video)
....
13:58:39 First fault message to crew. (Tire deflation)
....
13:59:32 Crew acknowledges call from MCC with "Roger, uh..."
13:59:32 Loss of Signal LOS
....
13:59:37 Loss of Control LOC
....
14:00:18 Probable start of depressurization.

Nice post, a reminder of just how quickly things happened. So many words
written about such a short period of time tends to make one it spread out
in your mind. I'm guilty of that.

--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

Craig Fink writes:

I'm sure the passengers on the middeck would have had plenty of information
about their situation, starting with the loss of tire pressured discussion.
The Commander and Pilot most likely would have noticed the diverging
control surface trim as the aerodynamics slowly changed, possibly some
discussion about it. Watching the trims would have been like watching a
countdown clock to loss of control. When the trim hits it's limit of
movement, 1, 2, and 3 degrees, their out of control. Towards the end, yaw
jets comming on, the last ditch effort of the flight control system.

The orbiter lost control only when the hydraulic lines were finally
severed, letting the control surfaces move freely. The pilot even tried
a restart of two of the three APU's and switching on the pumps
circulating the hydraulic fluids in a last attempt to regain some
control. This must have happened when the orbiter already was in a flat
spin and about to break apart. There was certainly some quick thinking
and acting going on.

Prior to loss of control, the Commander may have asked someone to take a
look behind to see if they could see anything in the plasma trail. A
logical and reasonable request. A view out the upper windows, back towards
the tail might (probably would) have revealed differences in the plasma
between the left and right side. Burning aluminum and disturbed flow,
possibly even super bright white flashes as globs of liquid aluminum get
instantly dispersed and burn in the slipstream. The bright flashes might
have even been visible to those in their seat, like a giant flash bulb
going off behind them, flashing through the upper windows and on to the
floor. There was quite a bit of time between the first indications of
something amiss and loss of control. After loss of control, during the
initial pitch up and yaw, he may have been able to get back in his seat and
buckle his lap belt. But, apparently not enough time to get his shoulder
straps or helmet on before the gyrations built up.

It looks more like he was just the last one to strap in and get his suit
ready because he was scheduled to do the last tasks prior to deorbiting
and so was just a bit behind everyone else. Seems to be quite normal so
far.


Jochem

--
"A designer knows he has arrived at perfection not when there is no
longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away."
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

I heard recentlyn that all commercial airliners are adding cockpit
video and real time satellite uplink of all cockpit activities for
better info when things go wrong.

currently theres only 30 minutes of communications recorded.

I suppose nasa could do much the same, although cockpit video of
anyone dying shouldnt be be released

although no doubt the more info the better

"bob haller safety advocate" wrote in message
news:b0eb7959-cbef-4158-bf10-
I suppose nasa could do much the same, although cockpit video of
anyone dying shouldnt be be released

Why not? I don't see a problem with releasing a fatality video. It could
then be uploaded to YouTube for entertainment purposes.

On Jan 5, 12:53�am, "Lorrie S." wrote:
"bob haller safety advocate" wrote in message
news:b0eb7959-cbef-4158-bf10-
I suppose nasa could do much the same, although cockpit video of
anyone dying shouldnt be be released

Why not? �I don't see a problem with releasing a fatality video. �It could
then be uploaded to YouTube for entertainment purposes.

you must be ill

Lorrie S. said:
"bob haller safety advocate" wrote in message
news:5de35ac0-e2f5-49cf-8d8f-you must be ill

Not hardly. You are just closed-minded. There is a lot of
entertainment value in videos of individuals being torn to pieces.

You first.

--
Invisible Lurker
http://ansaman.posterous.com/

"bob haller safety advocate" wrote in message
news:5de35ac0-e2f5-49cf-8d8f-you must be ill

Not hardly. You are just closed-minded. There is a lot of entertainment
value in videos of individuals being torn to pieces.