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EVA toolkit loss



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 20th 08, 05:14 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Jorge R. Frank
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Posts: 2,089
Default EVA toolkit loss

M wrote:
On Nov 19, 7:54 am, Pat Flannery wrote:
http://www.newsday.com/services/news...wednesday/nati...
Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper (by God, now _that's_ a name, isn't it? I
can't even pronounce the middle part)


Easy. Rhymes with "definition".

is probably going to catch hell
for not having the toolkit properly tethered to her...but if I was
EVAing and something inside my toolkit exploded, my first instinct would
be to toss that SOB as far away as possible as fast as possible. And if
it was tethered to me, I'd immediately release the tether on it.
Next question... is the toolkit going to get into some sort of odd orbit
that brings it back near the ISS from time to time?
They may want to fly it into the shuttle cargo bay (or grab it with the
Remote Manipulator Arm) and retrieve it before reentry.

Pat


Well, that bag containing important tools for the Solar Alpha Rotary
Joint is....Space History.
She will catch some flak from management (privately) for a serious
breach of EVA protocol.
Since this is her second flight (When she returned from her first
flight she passed out in public twice)
it will most likely be her last.


I doubt it. But most likely no one will be able to tell. It is too close
to the end of the shuttle program for her to get another shuttle
assignment. After that it depends on whether she wants to hang around
for Orion. If she doesn't, people will no doubt claim this EVA as a
factor. I don't think it will be. Everybody screws up, including
astronauts. Some screwups are, by their nature, more public than others.
What is more revealing is whether someone has the professionalism to
recover from a screwup, put it behind them, and finish the job, and I
can tell you a lot of people who count were impressed by Heide's recovery.
  #13  
Old November 20th 08, 10:44 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy,sci.space.shuttle
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 2,312
Default EVA toolkit loss

They kep getting opened after use as well. There is a temperature gradient
issue in 'real' space which may well have made the effect worse of course.

Brian

--
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graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"OM" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:30:45 -0500, "Jeff Findley"
wrote:

You're exaggerating. The loss of a few tools is unfortunate, but people
do
make mistakes. Someone forgot to fasten the toolkit inside the tool bag,
which was a mess because of a leaky grease gun.


...Responding to trolls aside, the leaking gun apparently caught
everyone by surprise. According to some sources, they'd never seen
that gun leak in a vacuum like that on the ground, which either the
gun malfunctioned, or there was some outgassing issue that simply
hadn't been seen with that particular setup before.

OM

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] Let's face it: Sometimes you *need* [
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]=====================================[



  #14  
Old November 20th 08, 03:41 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Jeff Findley
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Posts: 5,012
Default EVA toolkit loss


"Jorge R. Frank" wrote in message
...
You're exaggerating. The loss of a few tools is unfortunate, but people
do make mistakes. Someone forgot to fasten the toolkit inside the tool
bag, which was a mess because of a leaky grease gun.


The characterization of "lazy or just stupidly careless" is downright
offensive. There hasn't been an instance of a grease gun "exploding" (more
accurately, spewing grease all over the inside of a tool bag) before.
Heide dealt with it as professionally as possible. These things happen. I
highly doubt cfleon could have handled it any better.


As always, Jorge does a better job of making exactly the point I was trying
to make. When things go wrong, and you've got to improvise on the spot,
sometimes mistakes are made.

Going off on a tangent...

Henry Spencer always likes to point out that in the future, EVA's will
necessarily need to become more self sufficient. On Mars missions, NASA's
Mission Control won't be there to micromanage (Henry's word) the EVA's
because round trip times for radio waves to/from Mars can be on the order of
1/2 an hour.

Jeff
--
beb - To paraphrase Stephen Colbert, reality has an anti-Ares I bias.



  #15  
Old November 20th 08, 05:40 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Craig Fink
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Posts: 1,858
Default EVA toolkit loss

Pat Flannery wrote:



wrote:
I wonder how much that bit of carelessness cost us taxpayers...

I don't mind my tax $$ being spent for something that's needed and I
can understand an accident or emergency, but I do mind it being thrown
away by someone who's lazy or just stupidly careless. And you know all
of those tools were custom-made at a $Million each...


NASA says the value of the toolkit is around $100,000:


NASA underestimates the "value" of the bag by an order of magnitude.

http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.or...s-fd-5&catid=1

30 lbs x 20,000 $/lb = $3,000,000 plus the $100,000

Watching the video, I would think a Space Station Astronaut might not have
thrown the bag away, "set it to the side" with a departing velocity. They
probably are much better a zeroing rates of things they letting go of.
Shuttle Astronauts are still learning. On one of the rendezvous burn
videos, the pilot was having a hard time getting what looked to be a
kitchen timer to float with zero rates. Too bad the didn't show the result
of the burn, timer flying towards the tail.
  #16  
Old November 21st 08, 05:56 AM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Kevin Willoughby
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Posts: 220
Default EVA toolkit loss

Pat Flannery wrote:

NASA says the value of the toolkit is around $100,000 [..]
Pat


Presumably, that's *excluding* the delivery charge...
--
Kevin Willoughby lid

It doesn't take many trips in Air Force One
to spoil you. -- Ronald Reagan
  #17  
Old November 21st 08, 02:50 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default EVA toolkit loss



Jeff Findley wrote:
Henry Spencer always likes to point out that in the future, EVA's will
necessarily need to become more self sufficient. On Mars missions, NASA's
Mission Control won't be there to micromanage (Henry's word) the EVA's
because round trip times for radio waves to/from Mars can be on the order of
1/2 an hour.


And in half an hour, the Martians can drag you down through the sand and
put that control implant in the back of your neck, like almost happened
to little David Maclean in that sandpit near his house. ;-)

Pat
  #18  
Old November 21st 08, 02:59 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Pat Flannery
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Posts: 18,465
Default EVA toolkit loss



kevin willoughby wrote:
Pat Flannery wrote:

NASA says the value of the toolkit is around $100,000 [..]
Pat


Presumably, that's *excluding* the delivery charge...


That only works if there would have been something different about the
Shuttle flight if it hadn't been taken along, and its weight had been
used for something else taken to the ISS.

Pat
  #19  
Old November 21st 08, 10:49 PM posted to sci.space.shuttle,sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Dirk[_3_]
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Posts: 8
Default EVA toolkit loss

Craig Fink wrote in
m:

Pat Flannery wrote:



wrote:
I wonder how much that bit of carelessness cost us taxpayers...

I don't mind my tax $$ being spent for something that's needed and I
can understand an accident or emergency, but I do mind it being thrown
away by someone who's lazy or just stupidly careless. And you know all
of those tools were custom-made at a $Million each...


NASA says the value of the toolkit is around $100,000:


NASA underestimates the "value" of the bag by an order of magnitude.

http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.or...content&view=a
rticle&id=4472:sts-126-mission-status-fd-5&catid=1

30 lbs x 20,000 $/lb = $3,000,000 plus the $100,000



Damn, that's a lot. Maybe we could hire Russia to launch our
crews and equipment to the station to save some money.

Dirk
  #20  
Old November 26th 08, 06:28 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
Eric Chomko[_2_]
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Posts: 2,853
Default EVA toolkit loss

On Nov 19, 11:14*pm, "Jorge R. Frank" wrote:
M wrote:
On Nov 19, 7:54 am, Pat Flannery wrote:
http://www.newsday.com/services/news...wednesday/nati....
Heidemarie Stefanyshyn-Piper (by God, now _that's_ a name, isn't it? I
can't even pronounce the middle part)


Easy. Rhymes with "definition".

* is probably going to catch hell





for not having the toolkit properly tethered to her...but if I was
EVAing and something inside my toolkit exploded, my first instinct would
be to toss that SOB as far away as possible as fast as possible. And if
it was tethered to me, I'd immediately release the tether on it.
Next question... is the toolkit going to get into some sort of odd orbit
that brings it back near the ISS from time to time?
They may want to fly it into the shuttle cargo bay (or grab it with the
Remote Manipulator Arm) and retrieve it before reentry.


Pat


Well, that bag containing important tools for the Solar Alpha Rotary
Joint is....Space History.
She will catch some flak from management (privately) for a serious
breach of EVA protocol.
Since this is her second flight (When she returned from her first
flight she passed out in public twice)
it will most likely be her last.


I doubt it. But most likely no one will be able to tell. It is too close
to the end of the shuttle program for her to get another shuttle
assignment. After that it depends on whether she wants to hang around
for Orion. If she doesn't, people will no doubt claim this EVA as a
factor. I don't think it will be. Everybody screws up, including
astronauts. Some screwups are, by their nature, more public than others.
What is more revealing is whether someone has the professionalism to
recover from a screwup, put it behind them, and finish the job, and I
can tell you a lot of people who count were impressed by Heide's recovery..


I'm glad to hear the latter. To some Grissom was blamed for losing the
Liberty Bell 7 spacecraft and even after dying during the Apollo 1
fire wasn't vindicated! Cripes the man invovated the joystick for
spacecraft fer crisakes!

I do hope she gets a chance to redeem herself as no one wants to be
remembered for what they did badly, or more correctly in her case, got
stuck with bad luck due to a material or tool malfunction.
 




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