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It seems that as Dark Energy increases, Dark Matter decreases astime goes on



 
 
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Old November 19th 12, 09:09 PM posted to sci.astro
dlzc
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Default It seems that as Dark Energy increases, Dark Matter decreasesastime goes on

Dear Yousuf Kahn:

On Friday, November 16, 2012 4:48:16 PM UTC-7, Yousuf Khan wrote:
On 14/11/2012 10:50 PM, dlzc wrote:
On Wednesday, November 14, 2012 7:21:26 PM UTC-7, Yousuf Khan wrote:

....
We have no idea whether Dark Matter is WIMPs,
and since we've never seen WIMPs, then chances
are likely that they aren't. Not having seen
WIMPs, we have no idea if they interact and
annihilate each other.


I don't expect there are either, but they
would agree with this observation.


Except we should be seeing a lot of gamma rays
from Dark Matter annihilation events in the
distant universe. The Gamma ray events are so
far all just normal supernovas, quasars, etc.

I can't see highly ionized normal matter
being enough to explain Dark Matter either.
There simply can't be enough to make up the
shortfall,


There was, even before we saw all the
ionized gas between stars and between galaxies,
and the fields of individual stars in
intergalactic space... not allocated to
galaxies. This does stagnate the mass in
planet-mass-and-larger black holes, however,
as they would tend to increase Dark Matter
in forward time...


I don't get what you're saying here. Are you
saying that there are planet-mass blackholes
in intergalactic space making up the Dark
Matter?


*If* they existed, they would comply with the requirements of Dark Matter. If they existed they would have to be net not growing, to comply with this observation.

That would mean the MACHO model of Dark Matter.


Each observation applies to all possible (relevant) theories.

although it might be able to make up some
small percentage of it.


I understand you are not convinced.


So if DM is not either of these things,


Just because you are not convinced, does not
mean you can throw them out.


I don't believe we'll find any one thing
likely to be called Dark Matter (whether it
be WIMPs, MACHOs, or just missing baryonic
matter), nor will any combination of them be
enough to account for all of the effect.


But normal matter *alone* could describe spiral galaxy curves and microlensing, even before the discoveries I mention above. "Something special" was required in the dusty outer rim, and so...

My feeling is that the majority of the
effect is just a reshaping of the gravitational
force effects.


OK, but this is not required, is not detectable in the laboratory, and violates the laws of physics not changing over time.

then it's got to be an effect of vacuum energy,
just like DE is supposed to be.


That tool is blunted, as previously discussed.
The "energy", and the nature of that "energy"
was unchanged.


No, Dark Energy and Dark Matter might be just
an exchange of negative energy (gravitational
pull) for positive energy (accelerated expansion),
and vice-versa. All of the matter in the universe
is made of positive energy, while all of its
gravitational pull is made of negative energy.


Sorry, this is just so much wind here.

In the Inflationary period, a large amount of
positive push energy pushed the universe out
very quickly, and then that positive energy got
converted into matter


If it was not already matter, no push was required.

which reduced the positive energy's runaway
pushing by locking it up. That then gave the
negative gravitational energy, which is normally
very randomized and spread out, enough breathing
space to take hold of the universe and begin
slowing it down again.


It didn't slow down, it just didn't expand very fast.

Then virtual particles (which are also matter
and anti-matter, thus made of positive energy)


No, they are not. They are massless.

would start releasing positive energy into
intergalactic voids to begin another, albeit
smaller, pushing effort again.


This is just going downhill, Yousuf.

Inflation occurred before matter appeared,


Based on???

thus the entire positive energy reserve
was used to push the universe out. When
matter appeared, the universe's pushing
era ended, because it got locked up into
matter/antimatter. Now in the present
stated of the universe, some of that
matter/antimatter creates a mini
re-emergence of positive push era again:
not as large or as spectacular as the
Inflationary era, but still a sort of push
era.


None of which Science can support, since you alter physics to do it.

....
Dark Matter shouldn't go up and down in magnitude,


Sure can, as discussed above. WIMPs interact to
become normal, and ionized (therefore dark) becomes
less so.


If WIMPs interact with each other and annihilate,
then they won't become normal baryonic matter, they
will become gamma ray photons, thus not stable matter.


That is not correct. Massive normal matter is supposed to result, with less total energy carried off by the photons. And electrons entering orbitals convert more ionized matter (dark matter) to less ionized matter.

only forms of energy can do that by transforming
between one type and another.


Doesn't matter what type, both are attractive
in GR, as both must act like mass "in the large".


Not if the types of energy are negative energy
vs. positive.


Energy is one "term" in GR. It is attractive.

Negative energy is just what we normally call
gravitation, thus its opposite form of energy
is positive energy which is a push-type energy.


Sorry, no.

....
Matter is mostly stuck in its own form most of the time.


Nope. Interacting, forming stars and planets,
reaching ground state, heck even micro black
holes evaporating... plenty easy to become less
Dark.


I meant matter is stuck being baryons most of
the time. I don't mean whether they become stars
or planets or stuff like that. They stay pretty
stably in the form of baryons.


But ionized matter is essentially dark. So it can go from being dark, to being non-dark simply by cooling... by being in a cooler Universe.

....
Well, we're not talking about Big Bang
conditions, at that time, it's likely the
energy at that time was all converted to a
push-type energy before settling down to
become pull-type again.


I am unconvinced. I see no mechanism.
Dark Energy and Dark Matter are tied down
at the time of CMBR emissions, really not
much wiggle room.


As stated above, the Inflationary epoch was
when Dark Energy managed to runaway unhindered
since matter hadn't formed yet to lock it down
into a self-contained crystallized form.


The red shift of CMBR radiation is 1000 or so. The CMBR was light emitted from normal matter, self-pumped hydrogen ions. Only 300,000 years later, the red shift was 6 or 7. So the CMBR was normal matter, that existed during the inflationary period. I have no idea where your cosmology is coming from.

David A. Smith
 




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