Space Empires

History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
empires:

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm
--
Mark R. Whittington
http://curmudgeons.blogspot.com
Co-author of Nocturne, a Novel of Suspense
http://www.xlibris.com/nocturne.html
Author of Children of Apollo
http://www.xlibris.com/childrenofapollo.html

On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, John Savard wrote:
wrote, in part:

History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
empires:
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm

He shouldn't expect history to repeat itself exactly, though. There
will be many analogies between settlement of Mars and of the New
World, but the difficulty of space travel should mean that it will be
a long time before there are any issues related to the use of
resources in space that can't be settled peacefully and amicably.

Indeed. One should review the history of Viking settlement in North
American along the Eastern Coast of Canada. They fell upon nearly
barren land and natives that pifflered their iron tools. If they had
reached as far south as New England or New York. they would have settle
North America. As it was, they didn't persist is a difficult land.

"Mark R. Whittington" a écrit dans le message de
hlink.net...
History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
empires:

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm
--
Mark R. Whittington
http://curmudgeons.blogspot.com
Co-author of Nocturne, a Novel of Suspense
http://www.xlibris.com/nocturne.html
Author of Children of Apollo
http://www.xlibris.com/childrenofapollo.html


Happily for the rest of us, the american empire has no money
to finance anything even remotely like a space empire.

Empty words do not cost anything. Bush hasl not increased
NASA budget, and the next president will have to pay
back the huge deficits left by Bush. Space exploration
will continue with reduced budget, with the americans
having a smaller and smaller role as other nations take off.

What the american empire is interested in is not space exploration
but space warfare. The NASA budget is cut, the civilian space
program is destroyed, and the pentagon gets the rests of it.

All this talk about "mars and beyond" is very similar to what
Mr Bush (the father) proposed in 1990. 10 years later, his
son does the same thing. Maybe mr Bush junior junior will
say the same thing in 2020.

In article ,
William Elliot wrote:
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, John Savard wrote:
wrote, in part:

History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
empires:
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm

He shouldn't expect history to repeat itself exactly, though. There
will be many analogies between settlement of Mars and of the New
World, but the difficulty of space travel should mean that it will be
a long time before there are any issues related to the use of
resources in space that can't be settled peacefully and amicably.

Indeed. One should review the history of Viking settlement in North
American along the Eastern Coast of Canada. They fell upon nearly
barren land and natives that pifflered their iron tools.

Natives who took a dim view of the Viking habit of casually
slaughtering people they happened across, thus the Viking whining about
how the Skraelings attacked them back, the big meanies.

I must say I don't expect that specific aspect of Vikings in the
New World to be repeated, what with the general lack of Skraelings in
space. And the fact that the worst behaved space power probably still
manages to be better neighbors than the Vikings tended to be.


--
"Unless there are slaves to do the ugly, horrible, uninteresting work, culture
and contemplation become almost impossible. Human slavery is wrong, insecure,
and demoralizing. On mechanical slavery, on the slavery of the machine, the
future of the world depends." -Oscar Wilde, "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"

William Elliot wrote:
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, John Savard wrote:
wrote, in part:

History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
empires:
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm

He shouldn't expect history to repeat itself exactly, though. There
will be many analogies between settlement of Mars and of the New
World, but the difficulty of space travel should mean that it will be
a long time before there are any issues related to the use of
resources in space that can't be settled peacefully and amicably.

Indeed. One should review the history of Viking settlement in North
American along the Eastern Coast of Canada. They fell upon nearly
barren land and natives that pifflered their iron tools. If they had
reached as far south as New England or New York. they would have settle
North America. As it was, they didn't persist is a difficult land.

Yes, but that didn't keep them from benefiting from the knowledge of
America and its resources (timber, to be precice) and using that for quite
a long time.

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

William Elliot wrote:
: On Fri, 5 Mar 2004, John Savard wrote:
: wrote, in part:
:
: History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
: empires:
: http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm
:
: He shouldn't expect history to repeat itself exactly, though. There
: will be many analogies between settlement of Mars and of the New
: World, but the difficulty of space travel should mean that it will be
: a long time before there are any issues related to the use of
: resources in space that can't be settled peacefully and amicably.
:
: Indeed. One should review the history of Viking settlement in North
: American along the Eastern Coast of Canada. They fell upon nearly
: barren land and natives that pifflered their iron tools. If they had
: reached as far south as New England or New York. they would have settle
: North America. As it was, they didn't persist is a difficult land.

My understanding is that the land was anything but barren. Lanse Aux
Meadows (sp) was pretty rich. They called it "Vineland". Certainly the natives were doing
pretty well.




--- Gregg
"Improvise, adapt, overcome."

Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics
Phone: (617) 496-1558

lid (John Savard) wrote:

On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 06:41:03 GMT, "Mark R. Whittington"
wrote, in part:

History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
empires:

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm

He shouldn't expect history to repeat itself exactly, though. There
will be many analogies between settlement of Mars and of the New
World,

Hmm... It's been a long time since I've seen 'almost no' spelled as
'many'.

D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.

"Mark R. Whittington" wrote in message thlink.net...
History Professor Jeremi Suri discusses the promise and perils of space
empires:

http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/...2405-1445r.htm

I couldn't get beyond this part:

"The president has acknowledged the United States faces
no immediate competitors in space. American military
prowess and technological ingenuity are without parallel
in today's world."

This is simply not true. The U.S. is clearly slipping
toward second tier status in spaceflight. Slippage in
defense will almost inevitably follow.

The U.S. depends on Russia for ISS transport right now.
The Bush plan will phase out the only existing U.S. human
transport system in favor of even more dependence on Russia
and Europe.

Meanwhile, the U.S. Department of Defense will soon be
dependent on Russian, Japanese, and European rocket engines,
on French payload fairings, and on Japanese propellant tanks.
The so-called "U.S." EELV launchers that the DoD will use
have already been soundly defeated in the commercial launch
market by Russia's Proton, Ukraine's Sea Launch Zenit, and
Europe's Ariane. U.S. companies still build satellites, but,
thanks to restrictive paranoid technology transfer government
regulations, their market share has dwindled. The Bush plan
will apparantly stop NASA's important effort to develop a
new high-thrust hydrocarbon rocket engine even as it abandons
the space shuttle engine (currently the world's most efficient
high-thrust engine) and the shuttle solid rocket motors (which
are flat-out the world's most powerful rocket motors).

The only real program begun by Bush's plan is the
Constellation Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) meant to replace
space shuttle. Russia and China already have their own
"CEVs". The U.S. will not match their capabilities until at
least 2014. By then China, using a new rocket that will
be the world's most powerful when it starts flying soon, may
already have sent humans on translunar flights years before
the U.S. could have such a capability.

- Ed Kyle

"jacob navia" wrote in message
...

What the american empire is interested in is not space exploration
but space warfare. The NASA budget is cut, the civilian space
program is destroyed, and the pentagon gets the rests of it.

I wish I were as sure of anything, as you are of this.

-Dave

(Derek Lyons) wrote in message ...

Hmm... It's been a long time since I've seen 'almost no' spelled as
'many'.

D.

you have many imagination.

Tom Merkle