Bye-bye INF treaty?

In article ,
Herb Schaltegger wrote:
...Iran is not a technological backwater
filled with starving people ruled by an economically bankrupt regime like
North Korea...

However, it's not exactly a superpower economy either. Let's see here,
estimated 2003 GDP (2005 World Almanac): Iran, $477.8G; US, $10.98T.
For purposes of comparison, the Gross *State* Product of Florida in 2001
was $491.5G.

I think we know which of those two countries wins any serious arms race
between them. The Iranians are not idiots, so it's most unlikely that
they will even try.

(And yes, modern anti-military wishful thinking notwithstanding, it is
possible to win an arms race. Notably, Britain decisively won the pre-WWI
battleship race.)

Once they figure out how to build an ICBM, they won't stop
after building a dozen or two.

Funny how China, with over 12x the economy *and* a big hostile nuclear-armed
neighbor, did essentially that.
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: You equate someone asking if you want them to publish your office
: phone number with threatening physical violence?
:
:What physical threats? I have never threaten you or anyone else on
:USENET. And if you think me mistaken, then produce the proof right now
r post a retraction.

You're lying.

And your proof is?

And we've had this whole conversation before about how,
unlike you, I have better things to do with my life than dredge
through hundreds of your old posts to 'prove' to you that you said
something that has, as usual, slipped your memory.

So you feel threatened by me but are too lazy to dig up proof? Hmm...
seems like it's a case of not much of a threat or no threat.


: So being called an idiot is how you convince yourself that you matter?
:
:No, I matter because I declare that I do so. It is all that is needed.

snicker

Fine go ahead. Changes nothing.

: That's really quite sad.
:
:No, you're really quite sad and delusional.

snicker

: Uh, I don't respond to every one of your posts, El Chimpko. Obviously
: you spew so much **** that even you can't keep track.
:
:We're quite even in that regard.

Wrong again.

: Poor El Chimpko...
:
:How so? Because YOU say so? Sorry, that isn't enough.

Because this is your life, you sad little ****e.

I have a hint for you Freddy, you should be so concerned with your own
life as you are with others', as that is really where only you can
make a difference, and it is needed.


--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain

On 24 Feb 2007 18:30:46 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:


Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: You equate someone asking if you want them to publish your office
: phone number with threatening physical violence?
:
:What physical threats? I have never threaten you or anyone else on
:USENET. And if you think me mistaken, then produce the proof right now
r post a retraction.

You're lying.

And your proof is?

And we've had this whole conversation before about how,
unlike you, I have better things to do with my life than dredge
through hundreds of your old posts to 'prove' to you that you said
something that has, as usual, slipped your memory.

So you feel threatened by me but are too lazy to dig up proof? Hmm...
seems like it's a case of not much of a threat or no threat.

No, Eric, I don't think you're lying. Just as your premature
Alzeimers causes you to have to ask the same stupid questions day
after day, even after they've been answered repeatedly, you also have
no memory of the numerous physical threats in these fora that you've
made to Fred, and others.

Rand Simberg wrote:
On 24 Feb 2007 18:30:46 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
a way as to indicate that:


Fred J. McCall wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:
: You equate someone asking if you want them to publish your office
: phone number with threatening physical violence?
:
:What physical threats? I have never threaten you or anyone else on
:USENET. And if you think me mistaken, then produce the proof right now
r post a retraction.

You're lying.

And your proof is?

And we've had this whole conversation before about how,
unlike you, I have better things to do with my life than dredge
through hundreds of your old posts to 'prove' to you that you said
something that has, as usual, slipped your memory.

So you feel threatened by me but are too lazy to dig up proof? Hmm...
seems like it's a case of not much of a threat or no threat.

No, Eric, I don't think you're lying. Just as your premature
Alzeimers causes you to have to ask the same stupid questions day
after day, even after they've been answered repeatedly, you also have
no memory of the numerous physical threats in these fora that you've
made to Fred, and others.


Please provide proof, Rand. If what you say is true, and it does have
legal ramifications, then you can produce evidence of such threats.
Right? I take this seriously. I will not alow you to claim that I have
made threats to anyone without proof. Google is your friend. Either
prove that I have made threats or I will use this post and follow-on
posts as evidence that you lack evidence to back up your claim above.

Am I clear?

Eric

Reply to: Henry Spencer

Once they figure out how to build an ICBM, they won't stop
after building a dozen or two.

Funny how China, with over 12x the economy *and* a big hostile nuclear-armed
neighbor, did essentially that.

Which neighbor are you talking about, Russia or India?

WRT India, I understand that China has a large short and intermediate
range ballistic missile force built with them in mind.

pgf

"Scott Hedrick" wrote in message
...

"Pat Flannery" wrote in message
...
What makes you think I hate Jews? I simply disagree with the present
actions of Israel.

Pat, it's so much easier for those who work with a lack of facts or other
mental capacity to confuse "Israel" with "Judaism" or "the Jews".

Israel is a secular state, primarily, but not exclusively, Jewish. The
behavior of the state *does not reflect* the behavior of Jews worldwide,
and only barely reflects the attitudes of the local Jews.

I, too, have a problem with the behavior of the state of Israel. Only a
moron would translate that to hating Jews. On the other hand, many of the
distasteful things that Israel does, such as building a fence and racial
profiling, have proven to be highly effective.


Hell I know a number of JEWS who have problems with the state of Israel.

So where does that leave them? :-)


--
Greg Moore
SQL Server DBA Consulting
sql (at) greenms.com http://www.greenms.com

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: :
: : You equate someone asking if you want them to publish your office
: : phone number with threatening physical violence?
: :
: :What physical threats? I have never threaten you or anyone else on
: :USENET. And if you think me mistaken, then produce the proof right now
: r post a retraction.
:
: You're lying.
:
:And your proof is?

Your prior threats, which you now deny.

: And we've had this whole conversation before about how,
: unlike you, I have better things to do with my life than dredge
: through hundreds of your old posts to 'prove' to you that you said
: something that has, as usual, slipped your memory.
:
:So you feel threatened by me but are too lazy to dig up proof? Hmm...
:seems like it's a case of not much of a threat or no threat.

Poor Eric. He'll do anything to try to get someone to play his stupid
Usenet games. But none of the other reindeer will let him join in.

:
: : So being called an idiot is how you convince yourself that you matter?
: :
: :No, I matter because I declare that I do so. It is all that is needed.
:
: snicker
:
:Fine go ahead. Changes nothing.

Quite right, it doesn't. You're still an idiot.

: : That's really quite sad.
: :
: :No, you're really quite sad and delusional.
:
: snicker
:
: : Uh, I don't respond to every one of your posts, El Chimpko. Obviously
: : you spew so much **** that even you can't keep track.
: :
: :We're quite even in that regard.
:
: Wrong again.
:
: : Poor El Chimpko...
: :
: :How so? Because YOU say so? Sorry, that isn't enough.
:
: Because this is your life, you sad little ****e.
:
:I have a hint for you Freddy, you should be so concerned with your own
:life as you are with others', as that is really where only you can
:make a difference, and it is needed.

Yeah, I just feel all horrible about my life every time I leave my
nice house, hop in my Mercedes sports car, and drive to my well-paying
job. I'll really have to work on that.

snicker

--
"The odds get even - You blame the game.
The odds get even - The stakes are the same.
You bet your life."
-- "You Bet Your Life", Rush

"Eric Chomko" wrote:

:
:Rand Simberg wrote:
: On 24 Feb 2007 18:30:46 -0800, in a place far, far away, "Eric Chomko"
: made the phosphor on my monitor glow in such
: a way as to indicate that:
:
:
: Fred J. McCall wrote:
: "Eric Chomko" wrote:
:
: :
: :Fred J. McCall wrote:
: :
: : You equate someone asking if you want them to publish your office
: : phone number with threatening physical violence?
: :
: :What physical threats? I have never threaten you or anyone else on
: :USENET. And if you think me mistaken, then produce the proof right now
: r post a retraction.
:
: You're lying.
:
: And your proof is?
:
: And we've had this whole conversation before about how,
: unlike you, I have better things to do with my life than dredge
: through hundreds of your old posts to 'prove' to you that you said
: something that has, as usual, slipped your memory.
:
: So you feel threatened by me but are too lazy to dig up proof? Hmm...
: seems like it's a case of not much of a threat or no threat.
:
: No, Eric, I don't think you're lying. Just as your premature
: Alzeimers causes you to have to ask the same stupid questions day
: after day, even after they've been answered repeatedly, you also have
: no memory of the numerous physical threats in these fora that you've
: made to Fred, and others.
:
:Please provide proof, Rand. If what you say is true, and it does have
:legal ramifications, then you can produce evidence of such threats.
:Right? I take this seriously. I will not alow you to claim that I have
:made threats to anyone without proof. Google is your friend. Either
rove that I have made threats or I will use this post and follow-on
osts as evidence that you lack evidence to back up your claim above.
:
:Am I clear?

Yeah. It's clear that you're apparently the only one who doesn't
remember you making physical threats to people.

--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain

In article , wrote:
...they won't stop after building a dozen or two.
Funny how China, with over 12x the economy *and* a big hostile nuclear-armed
neighbor, did essentially that.

Which neighbor are you talking about, Russia or India?

The Russians. India is not much more than a nuisance by comparison. :-)
--
spsystems.net is temporarily off the air; | Henry Spencer
mail to henry at zoo.utoronto.ca instead. |

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 18:57:51 -0600, Henry Spencer wrote
(in article ):

In article ,
Herb Schaltegger wrote:
...Iran is not a technological backwater
filled with starving people ruled by an economically bankrupt regime like
North Korea...

However, it's not exactly a superpower economy either. Let's see here,
estimated 2003 GDP (2005 World Almanac): Iran, $477.8G; US, $10.98T.
For purposes of comparison, the Gross *State* Product of Florida in 2001
was $491.5G.

Iran doesn't support the same socially-liberal populace that any Western
nation does. If that nation chooses to build a few gross of ICBMs, they will
easily be able to afford to do so.

I think we know which of those two countries wins any serious arms race
between them. The Iranians are not idiots, so it's most unlikely that
they will even try.

If they're not idiots, why do you think a ABM solution directed at their
putative capacity is a good idea? For only an idiot would consider nuking
this country after all.

(And yes, modern anti-military wishful thinking notwithstanding, it is
possible to win an arms race. Notably, Britain decisively won the pre-WWI
battleship race.)

In terms of pure numbers, sure. In terms of quality, German ships were
substantially better-built and better-armored than British ships. For that
matter, the German navy acquitted itself remarkably well in that conflict.
Numbers aren't everything either. The mere threat of Germany's substantially
smaller force effectively kept the Grand Fleet "trapped" in Scapa Flow as
much as the Grand Fleet keep the German High Seas fleet trapped in Kiel.

Once they figure out how to build an ICBM, they won't stop
after building a dozen or two.

Funny how China, with over 12x the economy *and* a big hostile nuclear-armed
neighbor, did essentially that.

China is a patient culture, used to waiting a year or three or thirty to
achieve their ends. . . they aren't in any big hurry to demand respect on the
world stage like a petulant child. I also don't doubt that if they suddenly
found it in their best interest to build 3,000 ICBMs, they'd have them inside
of five years.


--
You can run on for a long time,
Sooner or later, God'll cut you down.
~Johnny Cash