beginner info needed about scopes and binoculars

"Bernie" wrote in message
m...
Stephen Tonkin wrote in message
...
Richard wrote:
All advice is greatly appreciated.

See:
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/firstscope.htm
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/evaluating.htm

As far as your quest for magnification is concerned, do try to remember
that
the main purpose of an astronomical telescope is light-gathering. Always
distrust supposed astronomical telescopes that are sold with claims of
very
high magnification. You do need magnification to see planetary detail,
but to
be able to reliably use x200 you are going to need a lot more than
you'll get
wiht £200!

Richard,

I can only advise you with the same advice I was given years ago when
attaining an interest in astronomy observations.

I was advised that if I wished to make detailed study of planets etc,
I would have to accept that a reasonable quality instrument should be
purchased for this purpose.

I was advised that with a budget of about the same as you have to
purchase a good pair of binoculars. I purchased a pair of Bresser
binoculars 9X63 which have served me well over the past ten years or
so.

Although I cannot resolve planetary details, I can monitor the
positions of Jupiters moons easily, and visualise many beautiful
starfields easily.

You say "I'm wanting one to be able to see the planets mainly and also
stars
providing the detail involved is worth seeing."

I am sorry but even with the largest telescope available you will not
see any detail of stars only pin points of light!!

Really if you want to seriously study planet details you will have to
accept that a reasonable quality telescope will be necessary for this
purpose.

Again my advise would be if you are serious about astronomy as a hobby
would be to buy a good pair of binoculars which then when you have the
money to purchase a telescope which you know will do what you want you
will still have the binoculars.

I have seen posts and read many internet postings of people who have
bought cheaper telescopes who either given up the hobby completely or
been lumbered with a telescope which they never use.

I have been interested in astronomy since I was a young boy, I am now
51 and it is only now I can afford to buy a half reasonable telescope,
as I have fought the temptation to purchase a cheap telescope. However
I have had many happy nights studyng the night sky with my simple
binoculars (which also are used for daytime viewing).

You also say you want to see things which are impressive! I am not
quite sure what you mean by this. I know there are many who have the
impression that with a 4" telescope you will see views similar to the
Hubble Space Telescope, if you are expecting this, then I would not
bother buying any telescope as you will not see this type of
impressive views.

Read some of the observation logs on the Internet, you will then see
that even with a large telescope, come objects simply appear as a
smudge or patch of light perhaps even requiring averted vision to
comprehend.

I am no expert on telescopes unlike some others on this newsgroup, but
I can only give you the advice I was given when starting out. Have you
visited an astronomical society or club which would give you a chance
to try out some telescopes?

Anyhow I wish you luck in obtaining a suitable telescope in the
future!

Thanks for that. What sort of minimum price range would you say would be a
decent starting point then?

Bluewater wrote:
[...]

What was your experience with them?

Not was, is. A 10x50 binocular is still my one of my most-used
astronomical instruments.

Oh, and I note that you still haven't demonstrated where it was said
that this thread was addressing the needs of young children. You weren'
t just making it up, were you?

[...]
In fact the same goes to the 10x50 binoculars. If the purpose is to serve
the people to just watch the sky without sufficient details not seen at all,

With all due respect, if you believe that a 10x50 binocular does not
show you a considerable amount of worthwhile detail of the sky,
particularly with respect to larger DSOs, then you are arguing from a
position of ignorance.

it doesn't make any sense to buy expensive binoculars with the budget they
can afford.

Straw man alert! Nobody suggested that a beginner should buy expensive
binoculars. It was suggested that someone with less than £200 to spend
might be better advised to consider a binocular. That is something
altogether distinct from what you are choosing to misrepresent it as.

You go to car boot sale there are loads of second ahnd or third
hand binoculars lying around.

Sure you can, and if you know what you are doing, you can get some real
bargains. If you don't know what you are doing, you can get some real
lemons that seem OK in daylight and are completely crap under the
optically much more demanding conditions of the night sky.


[...]
According to your classification, mine is also within the group of rubbish.

Undue familiarity alert! Since I have not stated what characterises what
I classify as rubbish, you have no way of knowing whether or not I would
classify your scope in that way.

[...]
I know I have no enough knowledge but I know what they are expecting with
the telescope. I will advise them to get one of those that have been packed
unused in someone else's garage not to invest 300 pounds.

If you actually read the advice that I have been giving, you will have
noted that buying used equipment is one of the things I frequently
recommend to people wanting good VFM on a budget.

not all of those, young children or young,
people interested in the sky can afford 300 pounds.

You have still not demonstrated where or why this is being limited to
young children. And where does this figure of £300 come from? Certainly
not from me. I wonder why you are suddenly introducing it, if not as
another straw man argument.


In my humble opinion,
the experienced amateur astronomer's job is not to put off newly blossoming
ambition with the suggestion with over 300 pounds

Straw man alert! You have just raised your invented £300 to "over 300
pounds". Are you trolling?


rubishing the rest of all

Either specify exactly what I have "rubished" (sic) or withdraw that
false implication.

without carefull consideration of their finacial situation but encourage
them to make most out of their money.

This is *exactly* what I and others who have been trying to give helpful
advice have been doing. We've seen too many people be put off by cheap
department store telescopes.

Everyone wants to brandish with their
shiny brand new expensive gadgets

Who is brandishing a "shiny brand new expensive gadget"? (Except, of
course, in your imagination.)

Now, some advice for you: You will find that discussion on this NG is
much more productive when people respond to what others *actually*
wrote, instead of what they *wish* had been written. You will also find
that those who make a habit of misrepresenting what other people say are
given very short shrift.


Best,
Stephen

Remove footfrommouth to reply

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Seems we are indeed discussing the needs of a child here, and a rather spoiled
one it seems LOL!

"Laurencelman" wrote in message
...
Seems we are indeed discussing the needs of a child here, and a rather
spoiled
one it seems LOL

You really don't realise how much you are showing yourself up do you?

(Bernie) wrote in message om...
Stephen Tonkin wrote in message ...
Richard wrote:
All advice is greatly appreciated.

See:
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/firstscope.htm
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/evaluating.htm

As far as your quest for magnification is concerned, do try to remember that
the main purpose of an astronomical telescope is light-gathering. Always
distrust supposed astronomical telescopes that are sold with claims of very
high magnification. You do need magnification to see planetary detail, but to
be able to reliably use x200 you are going to need a lot more than you'll get
wiht £200!

Richard,

I can only advise you with the same advice I was given years ago when
attaining an interest in astronomy observations.

I was advised that if I wished to make detailed study of planets etc,
I would have to accept that a reasonable quality instrument should be
purchased for this purpose.

I was advised that with a budget of about the same as you have to
purchase a good pair of binoculars. I purchased a pair of Bresser
binoculars 9X63 which have served me well over the past ten years or
so.

Although I cannot resolve planetary details, I can monitor the
positions of Jupiters moons easily, and visualise many beautiful
starfields easily.

You say "I'm wanting one to be able to see the planets mainly and also
stars
providing the detail involved is worth seeing."

I am sorry but even with the largest telescope available you will not
see any detail of stars only pin points of light!!

Really if you want to seriously study planet details you will have to
accept that a reasonable quality telescope will be necessary for this
purpose.

Again my advise would be if you are serious about astronomy as a hobby
would be to buy a good pair of binoculars which then when you have the
money to purchase a telescope which you know will do what you want you
will still have the binoculars.

I have seen posts and read many internet postings of people who have
bought cheaper telescopes who either given up the hobby completely or
been lumbered with a telescope which they never use.

I have been interested in astronomy since I was a young boy, I am now
51 and it is only now I can afford to buy a half reasonable telescope,
as I have fought the temptation to purchase a cheap telescope. However
I have had many happy nights studyng the night sky with my simple
binoculars (which also are used for daytime viewing).

You also say you want to see things which are impressive! I am not
quite sure what you mean by this. I know there are many who have the
impression that with a 4" telescope you will see views similar to the
Hubble Space Telescope, if you are expecting this, then I would not
bother buying any telescope as you will not see this type of
impressive views.

Read some of the observation logs on the Internet, you will then see
that even with a large telescope, come objects simply appear as a
smudge or patch of light perhaps even requiring averted vision to
comprehend.

I am no expert on telescopes unlike some others on this newsgroup, but
I can only give you the advice I was given when starting out. Have you
visited an astronomical society or club which would give you a chance
to try out some telescopes?

Anyhow I wish you luck in obtaining a suitable telescope in the
future!

I think you are talking to dead wood here Bernie. Richard asked for
advise and then more or less immediately dismissed the very reasonable
advice which you kindly offered ie better a pair of binoculars for
this money.

Clearly he wants a telescope and will keep asking questions until he
gets the answer he wants to hear.

Richard why ask for advice and then make little of the advice which
you have received? I think what most people are trying to tell you is
no telescope is better than a cheap telescope.

You asked for advice, you got your advice, now please stop insulting
those who are only trying to guide you, I also think your "I know best
attitude is quite rude".

Thanks

Simon

"Richard" wrote in message ...
"Laurencelman" wrote in message
...
I understand Argos are selling a telescope branded somewhere in the region
of
X260.

It retails for £7:50

Since you ask for advice and then complain about those helpful people who
offer
it, maybe the Argos scope would suit you needs, whilst still leaving you
£192:50 to spend on accessories!

What is your problem? I get indepth, informative replies from everyone else,
but all you can do is come out with a load of bitter and twisted ****e.

From an unbiased observers position mate you won't get far with your
filthy mouthed outbursts. Go buy yourself a mickey mouse scope and
grow up!!

It's obvious you don't want advice!!

"Richard" wrote in message ...
"Bernie" wrote in message
m...
Stephen Tonkin wrote in message
...
Richard wrote:
All advice is greatly appreciated.

See:
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/firstscope.htm
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/evaluating.htm

As far as your quest for magnification is concerned, do try to remember
that
the main purpose of an astronomical telescope is light-gathering. Always
distrust supposed astronomical telescopes that are sold with claims of
very
high magnification. You do need magnification to see planetary detail,
but to
be able to reliably use x200 you are going to need a lot more than
you'll get
wiht £200!

Richard,

I can only advise you with the same advice I was given years ago when
attaining an interest in astronomy observations.

I was advised that if I wished to make detailed study of planets etc,
I would have to accept that a reasonable quality instrument should be
purchased for this purpose.

I was advised that with a budget of about the same as you have to
purchase a good pair of binoculars. I purchased a pair of Bresser
binoculars 9X63 which have served me well over the past ten years or
so.

Although I cannot resolve planetary details, I can monitor the
positions of Jupiters moons easily, and visualise many beautiful
starfields easily.

You say "I'm wanting one to be able to see the planets mainly and also
stars
providing the detail involved is worth seeing."

I am sorry but even with the largest telescope available you will not
see any detail of stars only pin points of light!!

Really if you want to seriously study planet details you will have to
accept that a reasonable quality telescope will be necessary for this
purpose.

Again my advise would be if you are serious about astronomy as a hobby
would be to buy a good pair of binoculars which then when you have the
money to purchase a telescope which you know will do what you want you
will still have the binoculars.

I have seen posts and read many internet postings of people who have
bought cheaper telescopes who either given up the hobby completely or
been lumbered with a telescope which they never use.

I have been interested in astronomy since I was a young boy, I am now
51 and it is only now I can afford to buy a half reasonable telescope,
as I have fought the temptation to purchase a cheap telescope. However
I have had many happy nights studyng the night sky with my simple
binoculars (which also are used for daytime viewing).

You also say you want to see things which are impressive! I am not
quite sure what you mean by this. I know there are many who have the
impression that with a 4" telescope you will see views similar to the
Hubble Space Telescope, if you are expecting this, then I would not
bother buying any telescope as you will not see this type of
impressive views.

Read some of the observation logs on the Internet, you will then see
that even with a large telescope, come objects simply appear as a
smudge or patch of light perhaps even requiring averted vision to
comprehend.

I am no expert on telescopes unlike some others on this newsgroup, but
I can only give you the advice I was given when starting out. Have you
visited an astronomical society or club which would give you a chance
to try out some telescopes?

Anyhow I wish you luck in obtaining a suitable telescope in the
future!

Thanks for that. What sort of minimum price range would you say would be a
decent starting point then?

I think if you are thinking of buying new, you need to take a look at
some of the telescope supliers websites.

I know that Orion Optics Telescopes are good value for money.

Sorry that you consider Patrick Moore's advice to be bitter and twisted.

I think you need to chill out and relax a bit!!

"Simon Gartfield" wrote in message
m...
"Richard" wrote in message
...
"Laurencelman" wrote in message
...
I understand Argos are selling a telescope branded somewhere in the
region
of
X260.

It retails for £7:50

Since you ask for advice and then complain about those helpful people
who
offer
it, maybe the Argos scope would suit you needs, whilst still leaving
you
£192:50 to spend on accessories!

What is your problem? I get indepth, informative replies from everyone
else,
but all you can do is come out with a load of bitter and twisted ****e.

From an unbiased observers position mate you won't get far with your
filthy mouthed outbursts. Go buy yourself a mickey mouse scope and
grow up!!

It's obvious you don't want advice!!

Thanks for not seeing reason and backing up the old fool instead of agreeing
with honest and decent comments.

"Simon Gartfield" wrote in message
m...
(Bernie) wrote in message
om...
Stephen Tonkin wrote in message
...
Richard wrote:
All advice is greatly appreciated.

See:
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/firstscope.htm
http://www.astunit.com/tutorials/evaluating.htm

As far as your quest for magnification is concerned, do try to
remember that
the main purpose of an astronomical telescope is light-gathering.
Always
distrust supposed astronomical telescopes that are sold with claims of
very
high magnification. You do need magnification to see planetary detail,
but to
be able to reliably use x200 you are going to need a lot more than
you'll get
wiht £200!

Richard,

I can only advise you with the same advice I was given years ago when
attaining an interest in astronomy observations.

I was advised that if I wished to make detailed study of planets etc,
I would have to accept that a reasonable quality instrument should be
purchased for this purpose.

I was advised that with a budget of about the same as you have to
purchase a good pair of binoculars. I purchased a pair of Bresser
binoculars 9X63 which have served me well over the past ten years or
so.

Although I cannot resolve planetary details, I can monitor the
positions of Jupiters moons easily, and visualise many beautiful
starfields easily.

You say "I'm wanting one to be able to see the planets mainly and also
stars
providing the detail involved is worth seeing."

I am sorry but even with the largest telescope available you will not
see any detail of stars only pin points of light!!

Really if you want to seriously study planet details you will have to
accept that a reasonable quality telescope will be necessary for this
purpose.

Again my advise would be if you are serious about astronomy as a hobby
would be to buy a good pair of binoculars which then when you have the
money to purchase a telescope which you know will do what you want you
will still have the binoculars.

I have seen posts and read many internet postings of people who have
bought cheaper telescopes who either given up the hobby completely or
been lumbered with a telescope which they never use.

I have been interested in astronomy since I was a young boy, I am now
51 and it is only now I can afford to buy a half reasonable telescope,
as I have fought the temptation to purchase a cheap telescope. However
I have had many happy nights studyng the night sky with my simple
binoculars (which also are used for daytime viewing).

You also say you want to see things which are impressive! I am not
quite sure what you mean by this. I know there are many who have the
impression that with a 4" telescope you will see views similar to the
Hubble Space Telescope, if you are expecting this, then I would not
bother buying any telescope as you will not see this type of
impressive views.

Read some of the observation logs on the Internet, you will then see
that even with a large telescope, come objects simply appear as a
smudge or patch of light perhaps even requiring averted vision to
comprehend.

I am no expert on telescopes unlike some others on this newsgroup, but
I can only give you the advice I was given when starting out. Have you
visited an astronomical society or club which would give you a chance
to try out some telescopes?

Anyhow I wish you luck in obtaining a suitable telescope in the
future!

I think you are talking to dead wood here Bernie. Richard asked for
advise and then more or less immediately dismissed the very reasonable
advice which you kindly offered ie better a pair of binoculars for
this money.

Clearly he wants a telescope and will keep asking questions until he
gets the answer he wants to hear.

Richard why ask for advice and then make little of the advice which
you have received? I think what most people are trying to tell you is
no telescope is better than a cheap telescope.

You asked for advice, you got your advice, now please stop insulting
those who are only trying to guide you, I also think your "I know best
attitude is quite rude".

Thanks

Simon

Come on Simon, you've been misled here. I have given replies to advice with
often short but definitely not rude responses.

Listen to these facts...

I already do have a telescope and currently have some binoculars. Therefore
the bit about having it my mind that i one want one is no longer valid. Yes
I would prefer one as it is the general thing that people think of when
wanting to get into astronomy. However, on receiving the binoculars
suggestion I was a bit surprised. Only because I had never heard of them
mentioned for it before. Therefore I questioned it, which I believe I am
entitled to do? I got the replies and responded with further questions in
order to learn more.

I have not insulted anyone on here apart from one person who insulted me
with his whole attitude. I think this is a fair deal.

The simple fact that I have been asking so many questions on here shows that
I certainly don't have a "I know best" attitude.

And another thing Simon. I am in the middle of a very sensible and
informative chat with Bernie. Please do not interupt again with such
childish namecalling.

Thank you.