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Our unlikely existence ?
I see in the January "Astronomy Now" that Adrian Berry is saying that
the Chicxulub impact is a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox. While it's true that the demise of the dinosaurs probably allowed mammals to rise (disregarding the image of Raquel Welch evoked by his writing "as long as flesh-eating dinosaurs roamed the planet, it was impossible for our ape-like ancestors to survive" :-) intelligence could take other forms. For instance, the idea of intelligent dinosauroids is quite respectable http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/D/dinosaurintell.html and on other worlds there could have been other "choices", going right back to their equivalent of the Cambrian Explosion. For instance, the evolution of giant birds in the Tertiary epoch could have prevented the rise of large mammals, and those birds could have developed our level of intelligence. |
#2
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Our unlikely existence ?
Jonathan Silverlight wrote: I see in the January "Astronomy Now" that Adrian Berry is saying that the Chicxulub impact is a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox. While it's true that the demise of the dinosaurs probably allowed mammals to rise (disregarding the image of Raquel Welch evoked by his writing "as long as flesh-eating dinosaurs roamed the planet, it was impossible for our ape-like ancestors to survive" :-) intelligence could take other forms. For instance, the idea of intelligent dinosauroids is quite respectable http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/D/dinosaurintell.html and on other worlds there could have been other "choices", going right back to their equivalent of the Cambrian Explosion. For instance, the evolution of giant birds in the Tertiary epoch could have prevented the rise of large mammals, and those birds could have developed our level of intelligence. The problem with claims such as "it was impossible....." is that they are so definitive that they are ludicrous. We are here, so the author is conceivably wrong! Time to wrap up my grandson's pressy! A Bresser telescope......... Lawrence |
#3
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Our unlikely existence ?
Hello
I apologize in advance for this bad comment: How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us? I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and even computers in 60 millions years :-) Happy Chrismas. JP "Jonathan Silverlight" a écrit dans le message de ... I see in the January "Astronomy Now" that Adrian Berry is saying that the Chicxulub impact is a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox. While it's true that the demise of the dinosaurs probably allowed mammals to rise (disregarding the image of Raquel Welch evoked by his writing "as long as flesh-eating dinosaurs roamed the planet, it was impossible for our ape-like ancestors to survive" :-) intelligence could take other forms. For instance, the idea of intelligent dinosauroids is quite respectable http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/D/dinosaurintell.html and on other worlds there could have been other "choices", going right back to their equivalent of the Cambrian Explosion. For instance, the evolution of giant birds in the Tertiary epoch could have prevented the rise of large mammals, and those birds could have developed our level of intelligence. |
#4
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Our unlikely existence ?
In message , JP LR
writes Hello I apologize in advance for this bad comment: How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us? I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and even computers in 60 millions years :-) Happy Chrismas. JP We know they didn't extensively mine coal, for instance, and unless they were careful to build everything near a subduction zone (as required by the law in David Brin's Uplift stories) they were very tidy. But you're right, and perhaps the tragedy of their destruction was even bigger than we think. |
#5
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Our unlikely existence ?
Hello
I apologize in advance for this bad comment: How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us? I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and even computers in 60 millions years :-) Happy Chrismas. JP There won't be much left, you're right. Even the longest-lived radio-active isotopes fabricated by man will have long-decayed into something less hot and harmful. No doubt, some will even have been recycled through subduction into new rocks. Computers, us... very ephemeral. The stars however.... forever! Pierre MK-UK |
#6
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Our unlikely existence ?
Wasn't it Pierre who wrote:
Hello I apologize in advance for this bad comment: How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us? I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and even computers in 60 millions years :-) Happy Chrismas. JP There won't be much left, you're right. Even the longest-lived radio-active isotopes fabricated by man will have long-decayed into something less hot and harmful. No doubt, some will even have been recycled through subduction into new rocks. Computers, us... very ephemeral. The stars however.... forever! Only a tiny fraction of anything becomes fossilised, but because there was such a large amount of material to start with, there are quite a few fossils of dinosaurs, dinosaur footprints, dinosaur eggs and trees from that era that have been preserved for 60 million years. In the same way, only a small fraction of things like our pottery, woodwork and tyre tracks will become fossilised, but there's so much material around that there will be some. Once fossilised, the evidence could last for billions of years. -- Mike Williams Gentleman of Leisure |
#7
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Our unlikely existence ?
Only a tiny fraction of anything becomes fossilised, but because there
was such a large amount of material to start with, there are quite a few fossils of dinosaurs, dinosaur footprints, dinosaur eggs and trees from that era that have been preserved for 60 million years. In the same way, only a small fraction of things like our pottery, woodwork and tyre tracks will become fossilised, but there's so much material around that there will be some. Once fossilised, the evidence could last for billions of years. -- Mike Williams Gentleman of Leisure I suppose I should have said that for all that gets destroyed in the subduction process, some material will survive in uplifted areas. Pierre MK-UK |
#8
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Our unlikely existence ?
JP LR wrote:
Hello I apologize in advance for this bad comment: How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us? I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and even computers in 60 millions years :-) If there were a mass extinction sized asteroid strike tomorrow perhaps much of our civilization would be preserved beneath layers of ash and fallout. Buildings especially would remain preserved for many millions of years. Certainly enough for the next intelligent species to uncover. So where's the leftovers from a dinosaurial civilization? -- Peter |
#9
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Our unlikely existence ?
Hello,
I am not serious, but only for the pleasure of arguing: 1) Some of the previous answers assume more or less hat our cities, buildings, airports and so on will under several yards of mud, and that it won't be difficult to find our remains. A large part of our civilisation in 60 millions years will be probaly under the earth surface because of tectonics. The map of Earth in Cretaceous is not quite similar to today's. America (both south and north) shape was very different of today's shape, it's the same for south east Asia. At the current speed for tectonic plates (one inche per year), in 60 000 000 years these plates will have move by 900 miles horizontaly, and half of every place that is today at less than 900 miles from a fault line, will be under Earth in 60 Millions years. Our dinosaurs findings are a matter of chance. 2) For the same reason I doubt that our coal mine will be detectable in 60 million years, even today's, 30 years after the end of exploitation many coal mines begin to collapse. 3) Are buildings able to stand million years? How many hills are in fact old tumulus? Where are the remains of Babylon with its 80 feets large walls? How many of our cities are in dry desert? Do you recall the very sad landscape after Katrina? 4) Would it be possible for us to recognise intelligent dinosaurs remains, or for aliens intelligent human remains in 60 millions years? For example, the arguments about size of remains as a sign of intelligence do not apply for beeings far greater or far smaller as us: How can a beeing 30 yards high be impressed by a tool of 10 inches long? Another example: Computer electronic cards, 20 or 30 years old are without doubts manufactured items (10 or 20 inches long and large with identifiable components the size of a finger), todays electronics cards are not impressive at all: They are less than one inche square except for mother board. Yet nother example: We won't make so much waste in the coming centuries as we have done in 20th century, at least I hope so. How many chances have an alien in 60 million years to find an artifact from the 19, 20 or 21th centuries? Only one chance for 200 000 if every artifact of those three centuries survive to this time. Far less because not many computer, camera or city will have the chance to fall in a lake that will be later changed in coal. Jean-Pierre "Peter Hayes" a écrit dans le message de om... JP LR wrote: Hello I apologize in advance for this bad comment: How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us? I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and even computers in 60 millions years :-) If there were a mass extinction sized asteroid strike tomorrow perhaps much of our civilization would be preserved beneath layers of ash and fallout. Buildings especially would remain preserved for many millions of years. Certainly enough for the next intelligent species to uncover. So where's the leftovers from a dinosaurial civilization? -- Peter |
#10
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Our unlikely existence ?
In message , JP LR
writes Hello, I am not serious, but only for the pleasure of arguing: Much the best reason for posting :-) 2) For the same reason I doubt that our coal mine will be detectable in 60 million years, even today's, 30 years after the end of exploitation many coal mines begin to collapse. That's exactly why I mentioned coal. Even - especially - if the mines collapse, they will be full of pit props and other things that can't be removed, including a large number of bodies :-( Also, there's no sign that our iron deposits are someone else's waste, though that's all we will leave. I'm still waiting for someone to counter my main argument, which is that if we weren't here something else could be - perhaps even something with an exoskeleton, if things had worked out differently. The Fermi paradox still holds in this situation, IMO. |
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