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Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 9th 08, 05:21 AM posted to sci.space.moderated,sci.space.policy
Craig Fink
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,858
Default Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?

A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material
and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity
between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is
in-plane near circular.

Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission?
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @

  #2  
Old April 9th 08, 01:46 PM posted to sci.space.policy
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,516
Default Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?

On Apr 9, 12:21�am, Craig Fink wrote:
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material
and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity
between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is
in-plane near circular.

Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission?
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @


all the money goes to shuttle and its replacement, dead last is
science. dead last in priority and money/

wonder how this appeared in policy but my first attempt went to the
moderated group??

  #3  
Old April 9th 08, 05:39 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.space.policy
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?

sci.space.moderated removed, because the rest of us are simply not
allowed to post into that "moderated" group.

Craig Fink wrote:
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring material
and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity
between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe is
in-plane near circular.

Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission?
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @


Too bad there's not even any local research data of hard/objective
science related to such ice existing for whatever short amount of time
while situated within 1 AU space, such if that objective test sample
of whatever block or sphere of solid ice were having to coexist within
the moon's L1 is obviously another taboo/nondisclosure situation of
need-to-know, of which the public and greater body of science
expertise clearly isn't being allowed to know squat.

It has nothing to do with NASA, that of their shuttle fiasco or of
their supposedly going back to the moon. It has to do with those
mostly Semitic faith-based puppeteers in charge of our private parts,
as well as their being in charge of spending our hard earned loot on
whatever they damn well feel like, of which only the likes of passive
science as to inert eye-candy or the pathetic likes of Mars are not on
their NO FLY list.
.. - Brad Guth
  #4  
Old April 16th 08, 06:54 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Martha Adams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 371
Default Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?


wrote in message
...
On Apr 9, 12:21�am, Craig Fink wrote:
A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring
material
and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity
between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe
is
in-plane near circular.

Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission?
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @


all the money goes to shuttle and its replacement, dead last is
science. dead last in priority and money/

wonder how this appeared in policy but my first attempt went to the
moderated group??

==========================

Oops, Microsoft's OE didn't mark the later lines in the message
I'm responding to. Mine starts here.

If I were designing a mission out to Saturn for ring samples, I'd
want the mission to serve other objectives too. Several
objectives sharing the cost, improves its business structure.

An interesting question is, just how would your machine go about
getting those samples? My guess is, I'd want it in an orbit inclined
slightly to the rings, so it passed through slowly and could observe
and collect samples while in the ring plane. I think you'd want to
start near the rings inner edge and stepwise increase the machine's
orbital diameter, thus getting a radial range of samples. You start
at the inside working out so you make two passes in Saturn's well,
once inward and once outward.

Those rings are a wonderful sight. I wonder if you could bring back
some stuff and sell it to very rich people here as jewelry, thus to
pay much of the cost of the mission?

But I don't feel enthusiastic about this rings samples ideas. My
reason for this is, as soon as we know enough about space to
go out and put settlements there, we ought to do it. Because, one
of the things we have from modern astronomy, is space is a very
violent place; and things happen. Common sense and prudence
say we ought to have viable settlements and a whole life and
business network out there as soon as we have the technology
to do it; and space is a better place to explore space from anyhow.
So we should do that, and in fact, the technology is in hand now
to do it. Ever since the 1960's.

But back in the 1960's, Apollo was killed to free up more money
for the Vietnam war, the first of our major Washington pork wars.
However, that's all another topic.

Re Saturn's rings, isn't there a strong magnetosphere out there
around Saturn, and some serious VanAllen belts? Where life
would be hard because you'd have to stay inside three or four
meters of water and stone, except for very quick passages in
and out? So if we had an orbital settlement out there around
Saturn, how close in to Saturn could it be placed?

Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Apr 16]


  #5  
Old April 16th 08, 07:09 PM posted to sci.space.policy
BradGuth
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21,544
Default Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?

On Apr 16, 10:54 am, "Martha Adams" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Apr 9, 12:21�am, Craig Fink wrote:

A planetary probe should be able to fly in and sample Saturn's ring
material
and analysis it and/or return a sample to Earth. The relative velocity
between the probe and ring material would be almost zero if the probe
is
in-plane near circular.


Has anyone proposed or is working on a Saturn Ring Sample mission?
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @


all the money goes to shuttle and its replacement, dead last is
science. dead last in priority and money/

wonder how this appeared in policy but my first attempt went to the
moderated group??

==========================

Oops, Microsoft's OE didn't mark the later lines in the message
I'm responding to. Mine starts here.

If I were designing a mission out to Saturn for ring samples, I'd
want the mission to serve other objectives too. Several
objectives sharing the cost, improves its business structure.

An interesting question is, just how would your machine go about
getting those samples? My guess is, I'd want it in an orbit inclined
slightly to the rings, so it passed through slowly and could observe
and collect samples while in the ring plane. I think you'd want to
start near the rings inner edge and stepwise increase the machine's
orbital diameter, thus getting a radial range of samples. You start
at the inside working out so you make two passes in Saturn's well,
once inward and once outward.

Those rings are a wonderful sight. I wonder if you could bring back
some stuff and sell it to very rich people here as jewelry, thus to
pay much of the cost of the mission?

But I don't feel enthusiastic about this rings samples ideas. My
reason for this is, as soon as we know enough about space to
go out and put settlements there, we ought to do it. Because, one
of the things we have from modern astronomy, is space is a very
violent place; and things happen. Common sense and prudence
say we ought to have viable settlements and a whole life and
business network out there as soon as we have the technology
to do it; and space is a better place to explore space from anyhow.
So we should do that, and in fact, the technology is in hand now
to do it. Ever since the 1960's.

But back in the 1960's, Apollo was killed to free up more money
for the Vietnam war, the first of our major Washington pork wars.
However, that's all another topic.

Re Saturn's rings, isn't there a strong magnetosphere out there
around Saturn, and some serious VanAllen belts? Where life
would be hard because you'd have to stay inside three or four
meters of water and stone, except for very quick passages in
and out? So if we had an orbital settlement out there around
Saturn, how close in to Saturn could it be placed?

Titeotwawki -- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Apr 16]


At $100 trillion in our hard earned public loot, and of decades upon
decades down the R&D road, you've got to be insanely kidding about
establishing any sort of Saturn orbital outpost/gateway. Am I right?
. - Brad Guth
  #6  
Old April 17th 08, 10:51 AM posted to sci.space.policy
Martha Adams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 371
Default Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?


snip

At $100 trillion in our hard earned public loot, and of decades upon
decades down the R&D road, you've got to be insanely kidding about
establishing any sort of Saturn orbital outpost/gateway. Am I right?
.. - Brad Guth

No.
-- mha [sci.space.policy 2008 Apr 17]


  #8  
Old July 6th 08, 12:42 PM posted to sci.space.policy
Craig Fink
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,858
Default Saturn Ring Sample Return Mission?

Martha Adams wrote:

wonder how this appeared in policy but my first attempt went to the
moderated group??


I posted to both the moderated and this group, and set the reply group to
the moderated one. You can reply to all the groups or just the one reply
group. The moderated one.


==========================

Oops, Microsoft's OE didn't mark the later lines in the message
I'm responding to. *Mine starts here.

If I were designing a mission out to Saturn for ring samples, I'd
want the mission to serve other objectives too. * Several
objectives sharing the cost, improves its business structure.


Yes, this would be the best way. The Sample return vehicle is, or could be,
an Aerobraking/Ion Engine space tug. Such a vehicle in Earth orbit would be
economically valuable today for taking cargo to the GEO, the Moon and Mars.
It would more than double the payload of every launch vehicle that uses it
to take payloads higher than LEO.

An interesting question is, just how would your machine go about
getting those samples? *My guess is, I'd want it in an orbit inclined
slightly to the rings, so it passed through slowly and could observe
and collect samples while in the ring plane. *I think you'd want to
start near the rings inner edge and stepwise increase the machine's
orbital diameter, thus getting a radial range of samples. *You start
at the inside working out so you make two passes in Saturn's well,
once inward and once outward.


Just stay in the Rings, to collect samples the probe would have to
rendezvous with the target, especially the big ones. I agree Starting at
the inner edge of the ring would be the way to go, it makes maximum use of
the Aerobrake Return vehicle. As the vehicle slowly climb, scan the rings
above looking for it's next target to sample as it passes at a slower
orbital velocity just above the vehicle.

Those rings are a wonderful sight. *I wonder if you could bring back
some stuff and sell it to very rich people here as jewelry, thus to
pay much of the cost of the mission?


Returning several thousand kilograms, there would be plenty of material to
sell. It would be nice to get exploration and learning working on a
different economic model that the current one. One where researchers beg
bureaucrats to take money from the people to pay for their fun. Some people
don't like being forced to pay for other people's fun. Hallerb for example.
--
Craig Fink
Courtesy E-Mail Welcome @
 




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