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...From Flatlanders to Simpletons!



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 8th 07, 02:25 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.geo.geology
Jonathan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 705
Default ...From Flatlanders to Simpletons!



Do you still think the earth is flat?

Of course not. And anyone that does
would righly be considered rather uneducated
in the most basic aspects of reality.

But what about reality in terms of linear vs non-linear?
Are you still mired in a simple linear frame of reference?

If you answer the following question in the affirmative, then
you are indeed perceiving reality through a frame of reference
every bit as invalid and distored as a flatlander.

The question.

Do you define the words complex and complicated
in much the same way? Along a sliding scale from
simple to complex, each having a single minimum
and single maximum?

If you do, you still perceive reality through a linear
perspective, and are as far behind the state of the art
as a flatlander would be in a class on, say, relativity.

Chaos theory, now called Complexity science, has
redefined the word complexity to have a very precise
definition that is entirely different from the common
usage. In a linear view, complex and complicated
are seen as being much the same. But complexity
science builds its fundamental laws and axioms
on the system output. As opposed to classical
methods that build from the small scale physical
properties of the components.

Complexity science uses a systems or holistic frame
of reference. Which is required to properly model
real world complexity in a universal way. Since this
science is built upon system behavior instead of
part properties, the concepts can be used for any
complex dynamic system regardless of how different
their component details may be. This allows a single
science to be used across all disciplines.

In our non-linear reality, simplicity has two maximums
and a single miminum. While complexity has a single
maximum and two minimums.

Self-Organizing Systems (SOS) FAQ

"3.4 What is a phase change ?

A point at which the appearance of the system changes suddenly.
In physical systems the change from solid to liquid is a good example.
Non-physical systems can also exhibit phase changes, although
this use of the term is more controversial. Generally we regard our
system as existing in one of three phases. If the system exhibits
a fixed behaviour then we regard it as being in the solid realm, if the
behaviour is chaotic then we assign it to the gas realm.
For systems on the Edge of Chaos the properties match those
seen in liquid systems, a potential for either solid or gaseous
behaviour, or both."
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm#3.1


In system output, fixed or static behavior defines a minimum for
simplicity. The opposite system behavior, chaotic, also is seen
as another minimum for simple system behavior. Complexity is
highest only at the edge of chaos between the simple minimums.
Where system output is analogous to fluid motion.

Static, dynamic and chaotic.
simple...complex...simple
solid.......liquid.......gas


A scale of complexity with two minimums and one maximum.
This is a non-linear view of reality.

Why is this important?

Because where complexity is highest is where self organization
takes place. At criticality, where phase changed takes place, evolution
is given its impetus. Critically interacting systems, where complexity
is at a max, is the source of all order in the universe. And this is true
whether talking about physical...OR...living order.

Before any hope of a grand unified theory can be entertained
we must understand the universe through non-linear eyes.


Jonathan



DYNAMICS OF COMPLEX SYSTEMS
Textbook for seminar/course on complex systems:
http://necsi.org/publications/dcs/index.html



s
  #2  
Old April 8th 07, 02:42 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.geo.geology
don findlay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 513
Default ...From Flatlanders to Simpletons!


Jonathan wrote:
Do you still think the earth is flat?

Of course not. And anyone that does
would righly be considered rather uneducated
in the most basic aspects of reality.


Of course they bloody well do! What else do you think Plate Tectonics
is about? And why else do you think they use porridge in a pot to
explain it to lthe likes of ladies in the kitchen and other busty
mutts? It can only work on a flat Earth with no perimeters - and
flat-bottomed pans. !! (Jeez)

(Now, having got that off my chest, I'll need to read your post.)



But what about reality in terms of linear vs non-linear?
Are you still mired in a simple linear frame of reference?

If you answer the following question in the affirmative, then
you are indeed perceiving reality through a frame of reference
every bit as invalid and distored as a flatlander.

The question.

Do you define the words complex and complicated
in much the same way? Along a sliding scale from
simple to complex, each having a single minimum
and single maximum?

If you do, you still perceive reality through a linear
perspective, and are as far behind the state of the art
as a flatlander would be in a class on, say, relativity.

Chaos theory, now called Complexity science, has
redefined the word complexity to have a very precise
definition that is entirely different from the common
usage. In a linear view, complex and complicated
are seen as being much the same. But complexity
science builds its fundamental laws and axioms
on the system output. As opposed to classical
methods that build from the small scale physical
properties of the components.

Complexity science uses a systems or holistic frame
of reference. Which is required to properly model
real world complexity in a universal way. Since this
science is built upon system behavior instead of
part properties, the concepts can be used for any
complex dynamic system regardless of how different
their component details may be. This allows a single
science to be used across all disciplines.

In our non-linear reality, simplicity has two maximums
and a single miminum. While complexity has a single
maximum and two minimums.

Self-Organizing Systems (SOS) FAQ

"3.4 What is a phase change ?

A point at which the appearance of the system changes suddenly.
In physical systems the change from solid to liquid is a good example.
Non-physical systems can also exhibit phase changes, although
this use of the term is more controversial. Generally we regard our
system as existing in one of three phases. If the system exhibits
a fixed behaviour then we regard it as being in the solid realm, if the
behaviour is chaotic then we assign it to the gas realm.
For systems on the Edge of Chaos the properties match those
seen in liquid systems, a potential for either solid or gaseous
behaviour, or both."
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm#3.1


In system output, fixed or static behavior defines a minimum for
simplicity. The opposite system behavior, chaotic, also is seen
as another minimum for simple system behavior. Complexity is
highest only at the edge of chaos between the simple minimums.
Where system output is analogous to fluid motion.

Static, dynamic and chaotic.
simple...complex...simple
solid.......liquid.......gas


A scale of complexity with two minimums and one maximum.
This is a non-linear view of reality.

Why is this important?

Because where complexity is highest is where self organization
takes place. At criticality, where phase changed takes place, evolution
is given its impetus. Critically interacting systems, where complexity
is at a max, is the source of all order in the universe. And this is true
whether talking about physical...OR...living order.

Before any hope of a grand unified theory can be entertained
we must understand the universe through non-linear eyes.


Jonathan



DYNAMICS OF COMPLEX SYSTEMS
Textbook for seminar/course on complex systems:
http://necsi.org/publications/dcs/index.html



s


  #3  
Old April 8th 07, 03:06 PM posted to sci.space.history,sci.physics,sci.geo.geology
don findlay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 513
Default ...From Flatlanders to Simpletons!


Jonathan wrote:

Self-Organizing Systems (SOS) FAQ

"3.4 What is a phase change ?

A point at which the appearance of the system changes suddenly.
In physical systems the change from solid to liquid is a good example.
Non-physical systems can also exhibit phase changes, although
this use of the term is more controversial. Generally we regard our
system as existing in one of three phases. If the system exhibits
a fixed behaviour then we regard it as being in the solid realm, if the
behaviour is chaotic then we assign it to the gas realm.
For systems on the Edge of Chaos the properties match those
seen in liquid systems, a potential for either solid or gaseous
behaviour, or both."
http://www.calresco.org/sos/sosfaq.htm#3.1


I find this 'interface' property of existence very interesting,
particularly in regard to space when it comes to the atom. I don't
mean space in the sense of the black stuff over our head at night
(..well, I suppose I do..) I mean, if you take a tiny pice of
something and you peel it away intill it will go no further, and then
you break through into the quantum world and suddenly it's made up
(they say) of peas in a football park, with about 90-odd differenet
particles all jostling for space. That seems daft to me unless
somehow the space inside there is not the same as the space outside..
and it somehow undergoes a phase change. Is mass somehow the way
space organises itself when there is no space any more?

(Daft question, I know.)

and the different ways it tries to organise itself gives us all the
different 'elements'. (Gorr, ..I can see I need to read a book to
find the answer to this one)




In system output, fixed or static behavior defines a minimum for
simplicity. The opposite system behavior, chaotic, also is seen
as another minimum for simple system behavior. Complexity is
highest only at the edge of chaos between the simple minimums.
Where system output is analogous to fluid motion.

Static, dynamic and chaotic.
simple...complex...simple
solid.......liquid.......gas


A scale of complexity with two minimums and one maximum.
This is a non-linear view of reality.

Why is this important?

Because where complexity is highest is where self organization
takes place. At criticality, where phase changed takes place, evolution
is given its impetus. Critically interacting systems, where complexity
is at a max, is the source of all order in the universe. And this is true
whether talking about physical...OR...living order.

Before any hope of a grand unified theory can be entertained
we must understand the universe through non-linear eyes.


Jonathan



DYNAMICS OF COMPLEX SYSTEMS
Textbook for seminar/course on complex systems:
http://necsi.org/publications/dcs/index.html



s


 




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