Very wet Mars?

As in thirty-plus feet deep water over its entire surface if melted?
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0703/15marsice/

Pat

On Mar 18, 9:29 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
As in thirty-plus feet deep water over its entire surface if melted?http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0703/15marsice/

Pat

Mars polar aquafur/aquifer ice is certainly worth our knowing about,
as it represents the grim remainder of what used to be a geothermally
active and only somewhat atmospheric protected planet before having
lost it's essential magnetosphere.

Even if we're talking 1% Earth wet, Mars is missing most of its salt.
All the water upon Earth and within it's wet atmosphere might
represent as much as 9,000'(2.743 km) as covering a smooth orb. Thus
30+'(9.15 m) in depth of covering such a wussy little orb as Mars is
hardly worth a good spit. At that near vacuum, what would the rate of
evaporation be? Would there be any salty remainders?

Perhaps Mars was a mostly a swamp and/or of some other geothermally
forced muck like fresh water planet, whereas otherwise the necessary
quantity of Mars salt simply doesn't seem to coexist, as though it had
been nearly entirely missed upon getting its fair share of salt to
begin with, or perhaps as having subsequently been strip-mined or
somehow otherwise having its salt extracted.

Is there yet an unknown atmospheric process of having extracted salt
from such a cold and dry environment? (I don't think so)

If whatever deposited such massive amounts of rock salt and ocean
volumes of salty water upon Earth (roughly 1.5e19 kg of Na) should
have happened at roughly the same time for the benefit of Mars, as
then perhaps our Mars probes should have been operating fairly deep
within the remainders of such Mars salt, of having at least 1.5e17 kg
of whatever Na to deal with.

Have those salty types of minerals and percentage or PPM worth of
whatever's Martian rock salt been established from those robotic
samples taken and processed thus far?

Is salt too complicated of an element as to detect, much less
quantify?

Are there per chance any signs of Martian diatoms to behold?

Other than going by way of various observational derived speculations,
as to our having interpreted upon what sort of looks as though it's of
a Mars salt like substance, it seems as though our very own reactive
moon with its argon and sodium atmosphere has offered more solids of
salt to behold than Mars. What gives?

As I've said before, there's little argument from myself that Mars
once upon a geothermally forced time had surface water, and that it
still does have a wee bit of local or deposited salt, though as of
thus far it's simply not indicating as having near enough (Na) volume
or bulk as to hardly matter, especially if such salt(s) had been once
upon a time made wet enough as for sustaining other significant life
(meaning intelligent, as to being of something more worthy than mere
microbes and/or diatom like spores).

If Mars once offered as little as 1% the surface volumes of water as
Earth, whereas such there should have been those remainders of its
global salt (say at least 1% of our 1.5e19 kg = 1.5e17 kg), and
thereby even that scant 1% worth of our terrestrial salt is what
actually represents quite a great deal of salt to have kept hidden on
Mars.

What I'm otherwise driving at, is simply pondering the research based
notions, that Mars is much older than Earth, and that Earth is much
older than Venus, and that our somewhat recent moon (as having arrived
since the last ice age) that's so much bigger and nearby than most
seems a whole lot more salty than Mars, almost as though this solar
system was assembled over a great period of time, as we've been
dragged along by the likes of the Sirius star/solar system, and of
likely having received a few items from its vast Oort cloud of icy
moons and planet sized debris.

At least our somewhat salty moon, as being so massive and nearby, is
what's more than making up for the ongoing loss of Earth's core
energy, that's supposedly somewhere in the range of shedding 78 mw/m2,
whereas our moon's gravity of tidal forced influence has been so much
so helping that it has become our primary GW consideration like none
other. Obviously adding our global dimming soot into the ongoing GW
demise of our frail environment isn't exactly helping, at least not
any more so than our artificial methods of having been evaporating
water that's only adding to our atmospheric cache of having to hold
said water vapor, which currently ranges anywhere from 13e12 tonnes to
as much as 150e12 tonnes, depending entirely upon whichever hocus-
pocus or conditional physics driven science you'd care to take to the
bank.

It's as though we don't hardly know our very own Earth, yet having
spent countless billions upon billions, while having essentially
invested decades of our very best talents and resources upon going
after whatever's further away than Venus seems almost sadistic, if not
insane.
-
Brad Guth

On Mar 18, 9:29 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
As in thirty-plus feet deep water over its entire surface if melted?http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0703/15marsice/

Instead of these folks telling us the same old mainstream infomercial
crapolla, such as informing us as to how supposedly wet Mars had once
been, tell us what we don't know about our highly unusual moon, about
Venus, or about the Sirius star/solar system that might relate to
those pesky ice ages and otherwise of our ongoing GW fiasco, that sees
no apparent end in sight as long as we keep holding onto that nasty
moon of ours.

Here's another slightly corrected/polished contribution, as intended
for those that see no problems whatsoever with their excessively
spending most all of our hard earned loot on their off-world hobby,
that which seems to include their continued snookering of all the rest
of us village idiots.

(it's no wonder these silly Usenet clowns see nothing the least bit
wrong with our resident warlord's actions, as well as accepting upon
whatever our government has done in the past or plans upon doing in
the near future is perfectly OK, as long as they get to do their
thing)

How about instead of our wasting such supposed talents, draining our
best resources and having mostly lost precious time, why not instead
they should be talking to us about our somewhat salty old moon that's
not of Earth, telling us when that big old icy sucker arrived and of
how we subsequently obtained our seasonal tilt. If they're so gosh
darn smart, as such they can start off by telling us of whatever it's
going to take for relocating our moon, such as out to Earth's L1, so
that a significant and/or perhaps do-everything lid can once and for
all be placed upon our GW fiasco, that's going to need all the help it
can get.

Unfortunately, our "Taboo/Nondisclosure Moon" actually doesn't hold
much of a candle to the fire that's continually burning up all of
those hard earned billions upon billions of dollars, as for getting
badly spent on behalf of Mars, or of worse yet upon whatever it's
taking for going far beyond.

In spite of all that blown loot and lost time on behalf of whatever
life might have once upon a time existed on Mars, that at best sucks
real bad, and/or is of life that's going to remain as damn spendy to
boot, if not a touch lethal to our environment. If Mars life was ever
into kicking any serious butt, it's having done such without benefit
of having all that much salt, as well as having gone without a
magnetosphere or a worthy moon to boot. Titan and possibly Ceres, or
even Sedna with it's reddish ice offers more life worthy butt kicking
potential than Mars, and we obviously can't humanly go to/from either
of those places, much less return with anything worthy of humanity or
that of salvaging our badly failing environment.

An Earth w/o magnetosphere, w/o moon is simply a much larger Mars.
Give or take another iffy thousand years, and we're either toast and/
or we're soon enough on the road to becoming Mars like.

We're rather deep into achieving our point of no return, of the
ongoing GW thawing process of losing our surface ice caps, while most
all of that nifty Mars sequestered ice isn't going anywhere without a
good enough moon for keeping that planetology core and whatever
surface of interactive tidal forced environment(s) alive and kicking,
as is very much the case for mother Earth.

Pat Flannery:
"Subject: Very wet Mars?"
As in thirty-plus feet deep water over its entire surface if melted?
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0703/15marsice/

Mars polar aquafur/aquifer ice is certainly worth our knowing about,
as it represents the grim remainder of what obviously used to be a
geothermally active and only somewhat atmospheric protected planet,
that is before having lost it's essential magnetosphere.

Even if we're talking 1% Earth wet, Mars is missing most of its salt.
All the water upon Earth and within it's wet atmosphere might
represent as much as 9,000'(2.743 km) as covering a smooth orb. Thus
30+'(9.15 m) in depth of covering such a wussy little orb as Mars is
hardly worth a good spit.

At that near vacuum, what would the rate of evaporation be?
After the great thaw, would there be any salty remainders?

Perhaps Mars was a mostly a cool swamp and/or of some other
geothermally forced muck like fresh water planet, whereas otherwise
the necessary quantity of Mars salt simply doesn't seem to coexist, as
though it had been nearly if not entirely missed upon getting its fair
share of salt to begin with, or perhaps as having subsequently been
strip-mined or somehow otherwise having its salt extracted.

Is there yet an unknown atmospheric process of having extracted salt
from such a cold and dry environment? (I don't think so)

If whatever deposited such massive amounts of rock salt and ocean
volumes of salty water upon Earth (roughly 1.5e19 kg of Na) should
have happened at roughly the same time for the benefit of Mars, as
then perhaps our Mars probes should have been operating fairly deep
within the remainders of such Mars salt, of their having at least
1.5e17 kg of whatever Na to deal with.

Have those salty types of minerals and of their percentage or PPM
worth of whatever's Martian rock salt been established from those
robotic samples taken and processed thus far?

Is salt too complicated of an element as to detect, much less
quantify?

Are there per chance any signs of Martian diatoms to behold?

Other than going by way of various observational derived speculations,
as to our having interpreted upon what sort of looks as though it's of
a Mars salt like substance, it seems as though our very own reactive
moon with its argon and sodium atmosphere has offered more solids of
salt to behold than Mars. What gives?

As I've said before, there's little argument from myself that Mars
once upon a geothermally forced time had surface water, and that it
still does have a wee bit of local or deposited salt, though as of
thus far it's simply not indicating as having near enough (Na) volume
or bulk as to hardly matter, especially if such salt(s) had been once
upon a time made wet enough as for sustaining other significant life
(meaning intelligent, as to being of something more worthy than mere
microbes and/or diatom like spores).

If Mars once offered as little as 1% the surface volumes of water as
Earth, whereas such there should have been those remainders of its
global salt (say at least 1% of our 1.5e19 kg = 1.5e17 kg), and
thereby even that scant 1% worth of our terrestrial salt is what
actually represents quite a great deal of salt to have kept hidden on
Mars.

What I'm otherwise driving at, is simply pondering the research based
notions, that Mars is much older than Earth, and that Earth is much
older than Venus, and that our somewhat recent moon (as having arrived
since the last ice age) that's so much bigger and nearby than most
seems a whole lot more salty than Mars, almost as though this solar
system was assembled over a great period of time, as we've been
dragged along by the likes of the Sirius star/solar system, and of
likely having received a few items from its vast Oort cloud of icy
moons and planet sized debris.

At least our somewhat salty moon, as being so massive and nearby, is
what's more than making up for the ongoing loss of Earth's core
thermal energy, that's supposedly somewhere in the range of shedding
78 mw/m2, whereas our moon's gravity of tidal forced influence has
been so much so helping that it has become by far our primary GW
consideration like none other. Obviously adding our global dimming
soot into the ongoing GW demise of our frail environment that's also
losing its protective magnetosphere at the daunting rate of -.05%/year
isn't exactly helping, at least not any more so than our artificial
methods of having been evaporating water that's only adding to our
atmospheric cache of having to hold said water vapor, which currently
ranges anywhere from 13e12 tonnes to as much as 150e12 tonnes,
depending entirely upon whichever hocus-pocus or conditional physics
driven science you'd care to take to the bank.

It's as though we don't hardly know of or much less appreciate our
very own Earth, yet having spent countless billions upon billions,
while having essentially invested decades of our very best talents and
resources upon going after whatever's further away than Venus seems
almost sadistic, if not insane.

We can't even honestly accomplish our moon's L1, much less the moon
itself, yet a fuzzy if not hocus-pocus future of spending more than a
trillion per decade seems likely without hardly a dollar going towards
resolving our need of accomplishing a substantial cache of solar and
wind derived renewable energy, much less for extracting from the
energy that's existing between Earth and our moon.

Doing Venus isn't 1% the cost of accomplishing the same task for
Mars. At least you can efficiently go about your business (if need be
all 19 months worth of it) as safely within that composite rigid
airship, transporting yourself safely above the geothermally toasty
surface of Venus, without hardly expending energy or having to ever
set a hot foot on that deck.
-
Brad Guth

On Mar 18, 9:29 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
As in thirty-plus feet deep water over its entire surface if melted?http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0703/15marsice/

Pat

You silly folks do realize that the planet Mars is not all that salty,
don't you.

Robotically we have been to Mars, and after having spent such years
and billions upon billions of hard earned dollars and euros looking at
and measuring damn near everything in sight, with lots more spending
and measuring to come, yet there's hardly any salt to behold.

We've also been to Venus multiple times, and lo and behold there too
is damn little salt and otherwise a geothermally hot deck that's still
getting rid of 20.5 w/m2 (roughly 256 fold more core energy than Earth
has to spare), and a somewhat nasty lower atmosphere of perhaps mostly
CO2 that's summarily chuck full of geothermally and/or of newish
planetology forced S8.

I think the supposed "disk model" of a singular solar system creation
or formation is somewhat broken, or otherwise badly skewed off track
by way of some weird conditional laws of physics that only suits the
Old Testament mindset.

Was Mars once upon a time merely a fresh water swamp of a little
planet?
-
Brad Guth

On Mar 18, 10:29 pm, Pat Flannery wrote:
As in thirty-plus feet deep water over its entire surface if melted?http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0703/15marsice/

Pat

If in fact Mars had been very wet (say a billion+ years ago seems
worthy); where's the salt?

Mars salt ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.s...0cc2a2a8ad986d
-
Brad Guth