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#621
June 13th 04, 12:48 AM
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"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message om... "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote in message ... Read Deke! Deke Slayton basically said, given the opportunity, he'd have assigned Gus to the first landing flight if it were possible. GT-3 and Apollo 1 weren't necessarily "tame" they were fairly prestigious flights... first opportunity to fly a new class of craft and all. -- Terrell Miller "Married men live longer than single men, but married men are a lot more willing to die." Proverb Thank you, Greg. I've been off the computer since early last evening, so thank you for "subbing." Please don't thank me for "subbing" I don't want to be mistaken as for supporting your theories or agenda. 
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#623
June 13th 04, 02:04 AM
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"Greg D. Moore (Strider)" wrote in message ... Please don't thank me for "subbing" I don't want to be mistaken as for supporting your theories or agenda. Support, hell! It just means that, by sheer random chance, one of her wild-assed unsupported claims brushed up against the truth.
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#624
June 13th 04, 02:05 AM
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"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message om... If everything (according to you) was being simulated, and no real equipment was being tested, then what caused the fire? How about you first tell us how the RCS could fire without fuel? why did they have a live rocket on the Launch Escape Tower? Why would they have taken it off?
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#625
June 13th 04, 05:58 AM
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"Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote in message . ..
"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message om... "Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)" wrote in message ... Read Deke! Deke Slayton basically said, given the opportunity, he'd have assigned Gus to the first landing flight if it were possible. GT-3 and Apollo 1 weren't necessarily "tame" they were fairly prestigious flights... first opportunity to fly a new class of craft and all. -- Terrell Miller "Married men live longer than single men, but married men are a lot more willing to die." Proverb Thank you, Greg. I've been off the computer since early last evening, so thank you for "subbing." Please don't thank me for "subbing" I don't want to be mistaken as for supporting your theories or agenda. You don't have to support theories or agenda to step in and address issues upon which we agree. There's certainly enough antagonism in here that it is not necessary for you to become defensive when I was only being civil. LaDonna
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#626
June 13th 04, 06:21 AM
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Herb Schaltegger wrote in message ...
In article , (LaDonna Wyss) wrote: Herb Schaltegger wrote in message ... In article , (LaDonna Wyss) wrote: Will somebody please explain where this simulator (which would have to be hooked up to the CM, the SM, the S-IVB, and the S-I) have been located? Daniel has already referred you to the pages of the official report where this is discussed. They weren't in the VAB; they were on the pad. They DID "simulate" power by using external batteries to provide power rather than the fuel cells (since fuel cells require LOX and LH for operation, that would have been impossible.) However, the instruments were not being simulated. They most certainly were, as anyone who has ever been involved with ground testing of development, qualification or flight hardware for spacecraft will tell you. And yes, that includes me. OK, I'm terrified to ask this question, because I'm sure I already know what the answer is going to be (I hear this ridiculous reply many times a day), but here we go: If everything (according to you) was being simulated, and no real equipment was being tested, then what caused the fire? Go back and re-read. YOU claimed ". . . the instruments were not being simulated." I claimed that they were. That's ALL I claimed. Honestly, if your grasp for detail is so poor that you can't even read your OWN quotes and the replies thereto, why should anyone take anything you say seriously? And, as long as I'm asking questions, if everything was being simulated (which would mean NASA was correct in proclaiming it "non-hazardous", then why did they have a live rocket on the Launch Escape Tower? "Live" in the sense that it contained solid rocket fuel or "live" in the sense that it was actually ready to pull the CM off the stack and parachute it a few miles away over the ocean? Clarify your terminology (a skill you have yet to demonstrate mastery of) and you may get an answer. Well, now, I guess I'm going to have to repeat what I posted a week ago in order to answer your question (it truly would be helpful if you folks would have read it last Sunday): First, what you choose to believe when I am finished depends on whether you wish to believe Frank Borman or whether you choose to believe the facts. Borman claimed the rocket was safetied. That would have meant that yes, it was actually ready to pull the CM off the stack but no, the pyros had been safetied (by the pulling out of Panel 150; I'm too tired to go into THAT tonight, but if you need those details I'll reiterate THAT part of my earlier post tomorrow.) The evidence, however, indicates the pyros were not safetied until after the fire (note Borman doesn't bother to tell Congress WHEN it was safetied--a cute trick every six-year-old knows.) Here is what happened during the fi 1. Repeated gimbal torque motor signals. 2. SCS oscillating in roll, pitch, and yaw. 3. LEV accelerometers oscillating in pitch and yaw. 4. RCS jet driver activation commands in all 16 flight directions. 5. 12.4 and 13.6 seconds: Roger switches the entry batteries over to the main batteries, which not only ensures the suit compressor will continue functioning but also completes the Emergency Detection System circuit. 6. 17 seconds: They receive a Program Check Fail and an Error Detect Fail. These are abort failures. They generate a guidance and navigation warning, two Master Caution and Warning, and two DSKY lights. 7. 18.5 seconds: Gus rotates the T-handle to the translation controller 360 degrees clockwise and switches thrust vector control on. THIS SWITCHES FROM THE APOLLO GUIDANCE COMPUTER TO MANUAL ATTITUDE CONTROL. So the question is: Why is he worried about that in the middle of a cockpit fire on the ground UNLESS he is afraid the LEV is about to light? And, as I mentioned before (and this was so interesting to Stu Roosa that he ordered close-ups of this switch) the BMAG switch had ALSO been turned off. The BMAGS do not have to be turned off in order to engage manual attitude control; however, in the event of a guidance and navigation failure, the BMAGS serve as a back-up so they will CONTINUE TO SEND ERROR MESSAGES TO THE AGC. Again, another indication Gus was worried the auto abort was either about to be or already had been engaged. Finally, for those who are about to argue THIS point: Once an abort has been triggered, it cannot be stopped simply by switching off the EDS. There is a failsafe built in so that in the event of an electrical failure an auto abort will continue. The only way to stop it is by switching to manual control. Time for bed. LaDonna
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#627
June 13th 04, 02:37 PM
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#628
June 13th 04, 03:32 PM
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"LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message om... First, what you choose to believe when I am finished depends on whether you wish to believe Frank Borman or whether you choose to believe the facts. Until you provide verifiable documentation to the contrary, they are one and the same.
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#629
June 13th 04, 06:40 PM
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In article ,
says... "LaDonna Wyss" wrote in message om... Will somebody please explain where this simulator (which would have to be hooked up to the CM, the SM, the S-IVB, and the S-I) have been located? They weren't in the VAB; they were on the pad. so LaDonna thinks she's got the whole cause of the AS204 fire nailed, yet she's totally ignorant of a rather important thing called the MSS, she thinks the rocket is just trundled out to the pad all by itself. Classic  She also seems to think that AS-204 was assembled in the VAB and taken to Pad 37. That's also a laugher. Doug
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#630
June 13th 04, 07:03 PM
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"Doug..." wrote in message ... She also seems to think that AS-204 was assembled in the VAB and taken to Pad 37. That's also a laugher. Not a problem- all she has to do it provide a verifiable road map that shows the path how this was done. A current aerial photo won't work, since she could always claim it was altered. Let her produce a verifiable map or picture from the period showing the path from the VAB to Pad 37. As a "skilled investigator" this should be trivially easy for her.
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