Friendly Opinions on Intelligent Life in Universe Wanted

Hello ,
I'd like some *subjective opinions* on whether other intelligent life
exists.
In other words--"Are We Alone?"
Please be fair minded and respectful of others opinions, even if you
don't agree with a word of someone's opinion.
The other thread I read concerning this subject devolved into nothing
but a ****ing match.
Please don't demand facts from another poster just because you don't
agree with his subjective conclusions.
REMEMBER, THIS IS A QUESTION THAT CAN NEVER BE ANSWERED
CONCLUSIVELY BY THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
Therefore, every utterance on the subject, no matter the reputation
of the owner of the piehole from whence the opinion spews, is simply
an opinion, some a better educated guess, yes, but still an opinion.

I believe that there are billions of "groups", "planets", whatever, of
intelligent life, but that these intellects are so very very far away
from our little blue/green homeland, that none have ever visited us.
Even if ours is the only intelligent species in the entire Milky Way
galaxy, the are still billions more galaxies.

I think some will be many many years ahead of us, and some many
behind us, as far as technology goes. Social progression is another
area in which to speculate.

My most worrying question is(and I don't know who to credit this to):
*****Can intelligent life only progress to the point where we have the
technological means to completely destroy ourselves, and is
relatively easy for the malicious to obtain?*****

I ask this question now, because of developments in desperately
poor North Korea, who claim to have some kind of nuclear weapon,
combined with their propensity to sell anything they can to bring in
hard currency to their extremely impoverished nation. Will they sell
nukes to a rogue nation, or death cult International Terrorists
misanthropic organizations (what a nightmare thought)?

Please offer your opinions on these thoughts, and please be fair
and respectful to everyone, even those you voraciously disagree
with. Please be aware that not everybody who reads this newsgroup
is necessarily as scientifically literate as you, so be patient! TIA
{(|)
TheDreamist

"TheDreamist" wrote in message ...
Hello ,
I'd like some *subjective opinions* on whether other intelligent life
exists.
In other words--"Are We Alone?"
Please be fair minded and respectful of others opinions, even if you
don't agree with a word of someone's opinion.
The other thread I read concerning this subject devolved into nothing
but a ****ing match.
Please don't demand facts from another poster just because you don't
agree with his subjective conclusions.
REMEMBER, THIS IS A QUESTION THAT CAN NEVER BE ANSWERED
CONCLUSIVELY BY THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

Well, first of all, that's an absurd claim. No one knows what
future technologies will allow us to do. Never say never, as
they say.

Therefore, every utterance on the subject, no matter the reputation
of the owner of the piehole from whence the opinion spews, is simply
an opinion, some a better educated guess, yes, but still an opinion.

I believe that there are billions of "groups", "planets", whatever, of
intelligent life, but that these intellects are so very very far away
from our little blue/green homeland, that none have ever visited us.

I tend to take the Judeo-Christian/biblical account, which is
that man was created by a higher race ("See, he has become
like one of us..."), and has been subsequently visited by them
("You will see the sons of heaven descending and ascending..."
etc).

Even if ours is the only intelligent species in the entire Milky Way
galaxy, the are still billions more galaxies.

I think some will be many many years ahead of us, and some many
behind us, as far as technology goes. Social progression is another
area in which to speculate.

My most worrying question is(and I don't know who to credit this to):
*****Can intelligent life only progress to the point where we have the
technological means to completely destroy ourselves, and is
relatively easy for the malicious to obtain?*****

That's a extraordinarily pessimistic view. Man's capacity to
create has always far outstripped his capacity to destroy.

I ask this question now, because of developments in desperately
poor North Korea, who claim to have some kind of nuclear weapon,
combined with their propensity to sell anything they can to bring in
hard currency to their extremely impoverished nation. Will they sell
nukes to a rogue nation, or death cult International Terrorists
misanthropic organizations (what a nightmare thought)?

Compared to the cold war era between the U.S. & USSR,
North Korea, al-Qaeda, Iran, China etc combined present a
far smaller potential risk to the world's survival. The Soviet
Union really did have the capacity to end the human race,
and the U.S. still does. Other than that, threats are more or
less localized.

And it's not the North Koreans or al-Qaeda we should be
worrying about. We now have a president who claims out of
one side of his mouth that he wants to stop proliferation of
nuclear weapons, and out of the other side of his mouth is
developing smaller, "more usable" (and therefore much more
dangerous) nuclear weapons. The really scary part about this
is that Bush is in fact stupid enough to believe other countries
have another option to defend themselves, except to develop
similar technology.

Bush has also adopted a first-use policy for nuclear weapons,
has retreated from the Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty and a half
dozen similar treaties. Our own government is driving this
madness, not North Korea.

Rick

About 20 billion years ago the Universe started from apparently nothing.

For some time the belief that God created everything was simply accepted - without question. Except for the who/what made God query
which was quickly glossed over with the answer "God made god, because god is omnipotent and can do anything including a logical
impossibility" - we don't understand how because we are not meant to, now stop asking stupid questions!

Unfortunately for us we don't have a god to point to to explain why and how the Universe just appeared, nor are we able to use God
in such a way when anything difficult to explain comes along. The reason?
Because for the entire human history till a few hundred years ago was ruled by what the church thought!

Science progresses only because we don't just produce convenient clever answers out of a wish-list hat of desires. Something many
of current scientists have forgot.
It is hard work saying we don't know, and it is even harder to convince anyone that that is knowledge. That this (whatever this is)
isn't really possible, but something else is possible because of what has been eliminated as possible is how many new discoveries
are made.

For example if you are not going to give a god credit for the beginning of the Universe then it must of been the result of a natural
law. But the thing just popped outa nothing!
Then logically our view of what is logical - in this respect - is faulty. We need to change something so this can make some sense.
Time!

If there were no time the Universe couldn't have - through time - been a happening event before it popped! When Time started; then
and only then could the Universe (through whatever means) have begun.
What was it that started time?
Well something must of happened, and whatever that was it upset the whole applecart, and we got apples (galaxies) everywhere.

And for some strange reason on a planet on one common average yellow star, in a relatively out of the way region in a average
non-descript galaxy, life was able to begin.

It was able to begin for a number of reasons we know, and some we don't.
The ones we Know:
1 Our lovely Sun, which has been consistent and steady in output of energy for a very long time.
2 Our distance from the Sun is unusually perfect.
3 Our elements for life that make up the Earth, including a lot of water.
4 Our strong magnetic field that shields us from the lethal Solar wind.
5 Our life itself, that led to our evolution.

The ones we don't know:
1 Earth gets a blow from a mysterious object and as a result we lose most of our primeval atmosphere, and get a new Moon. The
new water laden atmosphere is much smaller and lets in the sunlight. The new Moon whips up huge tides and stabilise the Earths
rapid rotation, gradually slowing it down as it recedes from Earth.
2 Life develops to the cellular level then stops for 3 billion years until it pumps sufficient Oxygen into the atmosphere, then
multicellular organisms appear in the fossil record. Then just when everything seems rosy 95% of all life on Earth dies out.
The Earth freezes solid, from north to the south pole to the Equator. The temperature there remains well below zero for 10 million
years!
For some reason (volcanoes?) the Earth breaks free from this icy tomb and life is able to progress again.
We don't know why an Ice Age this severe has not reoccurred or what caused the first one.
3 Why is the Human race the only recipient of an evolutionary advantage so powerful as cognitive reasoning?

As we look up at the myriad of stars in the night sky we can be absolutely sure that what happened here did not happen in exactly
the same way elsewhere, but for sure it did happen in some way. It certainly isn't easy for life to develop, and in our example it
nearly failed many times! Our future ironically is in our hands, because at the moment the only thing that could end life on Earth
is our Intelligence!

It certainly begs the question: "Is intelligence a one way ticket to extinction?"
"Or is it the only way life can progress to the stars?"

We are unique and immensely significant in who we are, and there are billions of others.
The next thing we need to ask is: Why should we go to the stars?
Aside from the feeling we really need to go out there and explore the Universe, we should realize this is extremely expensive, can
never be a economic reward, and will take many lifetimes per trip if no faster than light speed vehicle is possible.

So why go?
There is a very good reason - next time


Regards
Robert

"TheDreamist" wrote in message ...
Hello ,
I'd like some *subjective opinions* on whether other intelligent life
exists.
In other words--"Are We Alone?"
Please be fair minded and respectful of others opinions, even if you
don't agree with a word of someone's opinion.
The other thread I read concerning this subject devolved into nothing
but a ****ing match.
Please don't demand facts from another poster just because you don't
agree with his subjective conclusions.
REMEMBER, THIS IS A QUESTION THAT CAN NEVER BE ANSWERED
CONCLUSIVELY BY THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
Therefore, every utterance on the subject, no matter the reputation
of the owner of the piehole from whence the opinion spews, is simply
an opinion, some a better educated guess, yes, but still an opinion.

I believe that there are billions of "groups", "planets", whatever, of
intelligent life, but that these intellects are so very very far away
from our little blue/green homeland, that none have ever visited us.
Even if ours is the only intelligent species in the entire Milky Way
galaxy, the are still billions more galaxies.

I think some will be many many years ahead of us, and some many
behind us, as far as technology goes. Social progression is another
area in which to speculate.

My most worrying question is(and I don't know who to credit this to):
*****Can intelligent life only progress to the point where we have the
technological means to completely destroy ourselves, and is
relatively easy for the malicious to obtain?*****

I ask this question now, because of developments in desperately
poor North Korea, who claim to have some kind of nuclear weapon,
combined with their propensity to sell anything they can to bring in
hard currency to their extremely impoverished nation. Will they sell
nukes to a rogue nation, or death cult International Terrorists
misanthropic organizations (what a nightmare thought)?

Please offer your opinions on these thoughts, and please be fair
and respectful to everyone, even those you voraciously disagree
with. Please be aware that not everybody who reads this newsgroup
is necessarily as scientifically literate as you, so be patient! TIA
{(|)
TheDreamist






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"TheDreamist" wrote in message
...
Hello ,
I'd like some *subjective opinions* on whether other intelligent life
exists.
In other words--"Are We Alone?"
Please be fair minded and respectful of others opinions, even if you
don't agree with a word of someone's opinion.
The other thread I read concerning this subject devolved into nothing
but a ****ing match.
Please don't demand facts from another poster just because you don't
agree with his subjective conclusions.
REMEMBER, THIS IS A QUESTION THAT CAN NEVER BE ANSWERED
CONCLUSIVELY BY THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
Therefore, every utterance on the subject, no matter the reputation
of the owner of the piehole from whence the opinion spews, is simply
an opinion, some a better educated guess, yes, but still an opinion.

I believe that there are billions of "groups", "planets", whatever, of
intelligent life, but that these intellects are so very very far away
from our little blue/green homeland, that none have ever visited us.
Even if ours is the only intelligent species in the entire Milky Way
galaxy, the are still billions more galaxies.

I think some will be many many years ahead of us, and some many
behind us, as far as technology goes. Social progression is another
area in which to speculate.

My most worrying question is(and I don't know who to credit this to):
*****Can intelligent life only progress to the point where we have the
technological means to completely destroy ourselves, and is
relatively easy for the malicious to obtain?*****

I ask this question now, because of developments in desperately
poor North Korea, who claim to have some kind of nuclear weapon,
combined with their propensity to sell anything they can to bring in
hard currency to their extremely impoverished nation. Will they sell
nukes to a rogue nation, or death cult International Terrorists
misanthropic organizations (what a nightmare thought)?

Please offer your opinions on these thoughts, and please be fair
and respectful to everyone, even those you voraciously disagree
with. Please be aware that not everybody who reads this newsgroup
is necessarily as scientifically literate as you, so be patient! TIA
{(|)
TheDreamist

I think we will never make contact with aliens

Possible reasons:

1. We all be dead by then =D
1.1 Self Destruction
1.2 Sun dies

2. Out of resources
2.1 Earth has limited resources - and they running out
Maybe nano technology can turn things around

3. Big Explosions in galaxy
3.1 All life is regularly destroyed by super nova's and other stuff
3.2 Black holes
3.3 Galaxies colliding

4. Communication problem
4.1 Too much noise in space.
4.2 Takes too long.

I am a very optimistic guy... but when it comes to aliens I am pestimistic
lol.

That's why we have to leave a big tombstone

See sending a message with the sun thread hehehehehehehe.

Bye,
Skybuck.

Anyway... think about the possibilities of sending a message across the
galaxy.

In the future... we might be able to broadcast our DNA...

Maybe even our mind =D hehehe.

And if any alien advanced civilization picks it up...

They could reconstruct our DNA and brain lol hahahahahah.

That would make a great science fiction movie =D

After you wake up some 1.5x purple alien with elefant nose stares in your
face and says:

"Welcome to the other side of the galaxy dude ! "

Ofcourse than we humans simply take over the civilization lol
hahahahahahahaha.

Then big war starts and we all self destruct lol.

That's what humans are good at

I know lol... bad ending movie lol

EvolBob wrote:
About 20 billion years ago the Universe started from apparently nothing.

For some time the belief that God created everything was simply accepted - without question. Except for the who/what made God query
which was quickly glossed over with the answer "God made god, because god is omnipotent and can do anything including a logical
impossibility" - we don't understand how because we are not meant to, now stop asking stupid questions!

Unfortunately for us we don't have a god to point to to explain why and how the Universe just appeared, nor are we able to use God
in such a way when anything difficult to explain comes along. The reason?
Because for the entire human history till a few hundred years ago was ruled by what the church thought!

Science progresses only because we don't just produce convenient clever answers out of a wish-list hat of desires. Something many
of current scientists have forgot.
It is hard work saying we don't know, and it is even harder to convince anyone that that is knowledge. That this (whatever this is)
isn't really possible, but something else is possible because of what has been eliminated as possible is how many new discoveries
are made.

For example if you are not going to give a god credit for the beginning of the Universe then it must of been the result of a natural
law. But the thing just popped outa nothing!
Then logically our view of what is logical - in this respect - is faulty. We need to change something so this can make some sense.
Time!

If there were no time the Universe couldn't have - through time - been a happening event before it popped! When Time started; then
and only then could the Universe (through whatever means) have begun.
What was it that started time?
Well something must of happened, and whatever that was it upset the whole applecart, and we got apples (galaxies) everywhere.

And for some strange reason on a planet on one common average yellow star, in a relatively out of the way region in a average
non-descript galaxy, life was able to begin.

It was able to begin for a number of reasons we know, and some we don't.
The ones we Know:
1 Our lovely Sun, which has been consistent and steady in output of energy for a very long time.
2 Our distance from the Sun is unusually perfect.
3 Our elements for life that make up the Earth, including a lot of water.
4 Our strong magnetic field that shields us from the lethal Solar wind.
5 Our life itself, that led to our evolution.

The ones we don't know:
1 Earth gets a blow from a mysterious object and as a result we lose most of our primeval atmosphere, and get a new Moon. The
new water laden atmosphere is much smaller and lets in the sunlight. The new Moon whips up huge tides and stabilise the Earths
rapid rotation, gradually slowing it down as it recedes from Earth.
2 Life develops to the cellular level then stops for 3 billion years until it pumps sufficient Oxygen into the atmosphere, then
multicellular organisms appear in the fossil record. Then just when everything seems rosy 95% of all life on Earth dies out.
The Earth freezes solid, from north to the south pole to the Equator. The temperature there remains well below zero for 10 million
years!
For some reason (volcanoes?) the Earth breaks free from this icy tomb and life is able to progress again.
We don't know why an Ice Age this severe has not reoccurred or what caused the first one.
3 Why is the Human race the only recipient of an evolutionary advantage so powerful as cognitive reasoning?

As we look up at the myriad of stars in the night sky we can be absolutely sure that what happened here did not happen in exactly
the same way elsewhere, but for sure it did happen in some way. It certainly isn't easy for life to develop, and in our example it
nearly failed many times! Our future ironically is in our hands, because at the moment the only thing that could end life on Earth
is our Intelligence!

It certainly begs the question: "Is intelligence a one way ticket to extinction?"
"Or is it the only way life can progress to the stars?"

We are unique and immensely significant in who we are, and there are billions of others.
The next thing we need to ask is: Why should we go to the stars?
Aside from the feeling we really need to go out there and explore the Universe, we should realize this is extremely expensive, can
never be a economic reward, and will take many lifetimes per trip if no faster than light speed vehicle is possible.

So why go?
There is a very good reason - next time

Most likely future scenario:

Yeah that'd be the day. Mankind after slumbering for centuries and
millenia in the dark ages finally overcomes the light-speed barrier in
the lab and with a test probe. A team of scientists builds the first
starship and christens it the Enterprise in honour of Gene Roddenberry
the 'star trek' visionary. The happy go lucky crew after years of
painful training prepares for the first voyage to an unknown stellar
region. Billions of people around the globe watch with tense
anticipation of the first launch that will change the face of space
travel and open up the galaxy to mankind colonizing the stars. The
Enterprise makes the jump into light speed, wormhole opens up...they
come out near a relatively minor star near to earth - Alpha Centauri.
It is supposed to be a there-and-back-again mission. But they are met
by a more advanced species who have possessed stellar travel
capabilities for centuries and even millenia while mankind was still in
the dark ages. They have also watched earth civilization's evolution
and eave dropped on our communications and television and radio waves.
They are well versed in who Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Mao were, and a whole
host of other evil leaders from history, who were followed and praised
by the common man in the street, despite being nothing but
mass-murderers. They consider mankind too primitive and hostile too be
allowed to roam the galaxy with nuclear weapons - despite the
proclamations by world leaders of 'seeking peace' and thus their
decision was made centuries ago, to blow to smitherenes mankind's first
starship on its maiden voyage. They view primitive Earth man to be
completely insane. Earth civilization waits for years to hear or see an
answer from the fledgling voyagers, and because none is forthcoming,
they declare the mission a dismal failure and decide that faster than
light speed travel is too risky since the safety of human lives cannot
be guaranteed. All future missions are scrubbed.





Regards
Robert

"TheDreamist" wrote in message ...
Hello ,
I'd like some *subjective opinions* on whether other intelligent life
exists.
In other words--"Are We Alone?"
Please be fair minded and respectful of others opinions, even if you
don't agree with a word of someone's opinion.
The other thread I read concerning this subject devolved into nothing
but a ****ing match.
Please don't demand facts from another poster just because you don't
agree with his subjective conclusions.
REMEMBER, THIS IS A QUESTION THAT CAN NEVER BE ANSWERED
CONCLUSIVELY BY THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
Therefore, every utterance on the subject, no matter the reputation
of the owner of the piehole from whence the opinion spews, is simply
an opinion, some a better educated guess, yes, but still an opinion.

I believe that there are billions of "groups", "planets", whatever, of
intelligent life, but that these intellects are so very very far away
from our little blue/green homeland, that none have ever visited us.
Even if ours is the only intelligent species in the entire Milky Way
galaxy, the are still billions more galaxies.

I think some will be many many years ahead of us, and some many
behind us, as far as technology goes. Social progression is another
area in which to speculate.

My most worrying question is(and I don't know who to credit this to):
*****Can intelligent life only progress to the point where we have the
technological means to completely destroy ourselves, and is
relatively easy for the malicious to obtain?*****

I ask this question now, because of developments in desperately
poor North Korea, who claim to have some kind of nuclear weapon,
combined with their propensity to sell anything they can to bring in
hard currency to their extremely impoverished nation. Will they sell
nukes to a rogue nation, or death cult International Terrorists
misanthropic organizations (what a nightmare thought)?

Please offer your opinions on these thoughts, and please be fair
and respectful to everyone, even those you voraciously disagree
with. Please be aware that not everybody who reads this newsgroup
is necessarily as scientifically literate as you, so be patient! TIA
{(|)
TheDreamist






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Another good idea

Some goverments increase spending on SETI.

They find alien signal... keep it secret.

Alien signal contains alien wapen systems

Army things bingo

Army constructs alien wapen systems.

Alien wapen systems go bad and turn on us lol hahahahah.

In the future... we might be able to broadcast our DNA...

I did, don't you know?

"Welcome to the other side of the galaxy dude ! "

I|IQ

~(@:

Mouseover
(t)here ~

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo/A

Science progresses only because we don't just produce convenient clever
answers out of a wish-list hat of desires.

Agreed.. We don't *just* wish, we also work at it. But that hat, well, it's
real, yes?

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo/A

All future missions are scrubbed.

Great! Thanks for the bath! Glad things are clean now. Whew.

_______
Blog, or dog? Who knows. But if you see my lost pup, please ping me!
A
HREF="http://journals.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo"http://journal
s.aol.com/virginiaz/DreamingofLeonardo/A