Elon Musk's new re-usable, hovering rocket ship in first test liftoff

In article id,
lid says...

In sci.space.policy message -
september.org, Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:05:28, Jeff Findley
posted:

In article ,
says...

Does Falcon 9 launch over populated territory when it launches from
Canaveral? If not, unless the route back is somewhat circuitous
wouldn't the return to the launch site also avoid population centers?

No, it launches to the east, just like every other launch vehicle that
launches from there.

If the Shuttle launched to the East, how come I've seen it, and its
tank, passing slightly to the North of here?

Shuttle launches ware limited in inclination so that they did not
overfly the east coast of the United States, but this still allowed for
an initially north-eastern direction. Launching to ISS resulted in
flight paths similar to what is shown in these graphics:

http://www.satobs.org/image/ststrac1b.jpg
http://www.satobs.org/image/ststrac2b.jpg

As you can see, there is quite a bit of a northern component due to the
relatively high inclination of the orbit of ISS, and in the second
picture you can see that by the time the shuttle passes 1160 seconds to
1260 seconds, it is passing by the southern most portion of England.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

On 9/27/2012 3:47 PM, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

David Spain wrote:

Now if the KSC is all considered to be military reservation as far
as air space is concerned, maybe you can avoid that problem, or if
you locate your landing pad at the Canaveral AF Station (Patrick
AFB). But the FAA is likely to treat SpaceX somewhat differently
than it would NASA I would think.

Presently SpaceX launches Falcon 9 from Canaveral AFS rather than KSC
right? (Not that I know where one ends and the other begins...)

I believe this is true. But I often make the mistake of lumping them
both together in conversations and calling them KSC collectively.

Jeff


Agreed I believe it is SLC-40 @Canaveral AFS....

Dave

"David Spain" wrote in message
news

On 9/27/2012 3:47 PM, Jeff Findley wrote:
In article ,
says...

David Spain wrote:

Now if the KSC is all considered to be military reservation as far
as air space is concerned, maybe you can avoid that problem, or if
you locate your landing pad at the Canaveral AF Station (Patrick
AFB). But the FAA is likely to treat SpaceX somewhat differently
than it would NASA I would think.

Presently SpaceX launches Falcon 9 from Canaveral AFS rather than KSC
right? (Not that I know where one ends and the other begins...)

I believe this is true. But I often make the mistake of lumping them
both together in conversations and calling them KSC collectively.

Jeff


Agreed I believe it is SLC-40 @Canaveral AFS....


Yes, the only pads at KSC are LC-39A/B.

However, I don't think that has any bearing on how the FAA would treat
things. Even if Falcon 9 launches from a military base, it's not a military
asset. It's subject to FAA regulations (which I believe at this point are
basically, "this is all experimental, don't do anything stupid, don't kill
anyone and we won't put in to many regulations until we have an idea of what
is needed.")

Dave



--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

On 9/27/2012 1:03 AM, David Spain wrote:
On 9/26/2012 5:31 PM, Dr J R Stockton wrote:
In sci.space.policy message
om, Tue, 25 Sep 2012 13:29:43, David Spain posted:

It's going to be interesting to see how SpaceX approaches FAA
certification for this.

I'm going to bet that it would be easiest for SpaceX to appropriate an
otherwise uninhabited island off the East Coast of Florida for a
landing pad and barge it back to the Cape, rather than try to fly this
thing back over populated territory. Either that or a sea barge landing
platform.


The United States of America does not seem to have any such islands, on
a reasonable interpretation of "off" and "East". It might be possible
to rent space on a minor Bahama - appropriation could lead to war with
HM QEII et al.


Bad choice of words, rent would be better or buy outright. When I wrote that I was thinking of a US territory, but you may be right
that the US doesn't have any that are convenient, I haven't checked. I don't think SpaceX plans to go to war with anyone... :-)

Dave

So just a casual browse of Google Maps around the Bahamas reveals....

Castaway Cay! A Disney Resort with PLENTY of available undeveloped land to the east...
SpaceX could set up a leasing deal and Disney gets yet another attraction!
And yes you bet your sweet ass you have to sign a liability waiver if you want to
stay there during a landing! :-)

Or there is my favorite choice "Goat Cay"... Looks pretty barren AFAICT...
I'm sure the goats won't mind....

OTOH these are all off-inclination for launches to the ISS.

Dave

In sci.space.policy message -
september.org, Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:23:35, Jeff Findley
posted:

In article id,
says...

In sci.space.policy message -
september.org, Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:05:28, Jeff Findley
posted:

In article ,
says...

Does Falcon 9 launch over populated territory when it launches from
Canaveral? If not, unless the route back is somewhat circuitous
wouldn't the return to the launch site also avoid population centers?

No, it launches to the east, just like every other launch vehicle that
launches from there.

If the Shuttle launched to the East, how come I've seen it, and its
tank, passing slightly to the North of here?

Shuttle launches ware limited in inclination so that they did not
overfly the east coast of the United States, but this still allowed for
an initially north-eastern direction. Launching to ISS resulted in
flight paths similar to what is shown in these graphics:

http://www.satobs.org/image/ststrac1b.jpg
http://www.satobs.org/image/ststrac2b.jpg

As you can see, there is quite a bit of a northern component due to the
relatively high inclination of the orbit of ISS, and in the second
picture you can see that by the time the shuttle passes 1160 seconds to
1260 seconds, it is passing by the southern most portion of England.

I see that sarcasm is still wasted in Usenet.

--
(c) John Stockton, nr London UK Reply address via Home Page.
news:comp.lang.javascript FAQ http://www.jibbering.com/faq/index.html.
http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/js-index.htm jscr maths, dates, sources.
http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ TP/BP/Delphi/jscr/&c, FAQ items, links.

In article id,
lid says...

In sci.space.policy message -
september.org, Fri, 28 Sep 2012 09:23:35, Jeff Findley
posted:

In article id,
says...

In sci.space.policy message -
september.org, Wed, 26 Sep 2012 10:05:28, Jeff Findley
posted:

In article ,
says...

Does Falcon 9 launch over populated territory when it launches from
Canaveral? If not, unless the route back is somewhat circuitous
wouldn't the return to the launch site also avoid population centers?

No, it launches to the east, just like every other launch vehicle that
launches from there.

If the Shuttle launched to the East, how come I've seen it, and its
tank, passing slightly to the North of here?

Shuttle launches ware limited in inclination so that they did not
overfly the east coast of the United States, but this still allowed for
an initially north-eastern direction. Launching to ISS resulted in
flight paths similar to what is shown in these graphics:

http://www.satobs.org/image/ststrac1b.jpg
http://www.satobs.org/image/ststrac2b.jpg

As you can see, there is quite a bit of a northern component due to the
relatively high inclination of the orbit of ISS, and in the second
picture you can see that by the time the shuttle passes 1160 seconds to
1260 seconds, it is passing by the southern most portion of England.

I see that sarcasm is still wasted in Usenet.

Partly. ;-)

But being an engineer, I still like to dig up the data. There may be
some lurkers here that don't understand that ISS is in a relatively high
inclination orbit (due to the location of the Russian launch site). It
does make for an interesting ground track immediately following launch.

Jeff

--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer

Are there any shots of the hop showing all the legs no longer in
contact with the ground? What I've seen so far seems to have the
"moment of truth" fully obscured by exhaust/debris.

rick jones
--
The glass is neither half-empty nor half-full. The glass has a leak.
The real question is "Can it be patched?"
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...