Complete proof against evolution

On Mar 15, 3:26*pm, "A Believer" wrote:
snip
A_believer

You have already lied. You told us that you were kill filing my posts.

Now you respond to them.

Not a great example to the kids, are you?

"Chris.Bee" wrote in message wrote:

"You have already lied. You told us that you were kill filing my posts.

Now you respond to them.

Not a great example to the kids, are you?"

Well, if I'm not a great example, what sort of horrendous, eccentric,
sarcastic example does that make you? Far worse than a liar I would say.
And now you are officially

--------------------PLONKED----------------------

On Mar 15, 6:29*pm, "A Believer" wrote:

Well, if I'm not a great example, what sort of horrendous, eccentric,
sarcastic example does that make you? *Far worse than a liar I would say.
And now you are officially

--------------------PLONKED----------------------

Nah, nah, nø, nah, nah.

Love

Pink XX

"Chris L Peterson" wrote:

There is no rational reason to believe that the Universe was created or
that it is managed, and no practical reason for believing it either.

Twelve step programs owe there success to the individual belief that there
is a power beyond the self, and there is a LOT of evidence (in changed
lives) to indicate that those programs work (for those who actually believe
in that power).

As for a creator who is actively managing things, well, that's just plain
nuts. :-)

Personally, my "view" on creation by intent, is that whoever, or whatever,
fired the gun, included in the "cosmic DNA" everything necessary to start
from dust and culminate in life.

After firing the gun however, they went and joined there buds at the local
bar for a shot and a beer in celebration. Having made a regular habit of
said behavior, they too found need in a twelve step program based on their
belief that there is a higher power, and have since been otherwise occupied.

It's turtles all the way down...

-Steve Paul
(or something like that)

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 18:46:09 -0400, "Steve P."
wrote:

Twelve step programs owe there success to the individual belief that there
is a power beyond the self, and there is a LOT of evidence (in changed
lives) to indicate that those programs work (for those who actually believe
in that power).

Well, that last clause is the key, isn't it? I've never doubted the
efficacy of placebos. Certainly, there are highly effective programs for
non-believers as well. Your example may provide an example of practical
belief to those who already do so, but it would seem unreasonable to
develop a belief (however one does that) just to join a twelve step
program!
_________________________________________________

Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

It is said that one must reach a low to find god.

Which another way of saying that if you sink low enough he will find
you (wanting).

Then why are churches usually built on high ground instead of in the
gutter?

Or in the basement?

Are the churches now full of cured drug addicts and alcoholics as well
as paedophiles?

Finally, it's all beginning to make sense....

"Chris.Bee" wrote:

It is said that one must reach a low to find god.

Which another way of saying that if you sink low enough he will find
you (wanting).

Life's general version of military basic training. g


Then why are churches usually built on high ground instead of in the
gutter?

Or in the basement?

Most of the churches that I've been too were in industrial parks, basements,
and school buildings, and those folks that have erected more traditional
buildings are of all religions, protestant, catholic, muslim and eastern
based.

You seem to have very limited exposure to middle class Christianity in the
US, and/or knowledge of places where it is illegal to worship as you choose.
I'm going to guess that you live somewhere that has a very long history of
traditional and instituionalized Christianity, and some point in history it
was the "state" religion. Remember that many of the first colonists to
America were escaping exactly that, and that when the time came, the first
Amendment of the US Constitution was written to guarantee that no state
could establish (dictate) a religion. Not the second ammendment, or the
third, ....but the first.

This of course pretty much guarantees you're going to have the occasional
loose canon, like David Koresh and others that have cropped up over the
decades of American history (Heaven's Gate, Jim Jones), but there are
factions and the disillusioned of every kind out there, and some are not
religious but political. (KKK, rogue backwater militias (Timothy McVey
sp?)).


Are the churches now full of cured drug addicts and alcoholics as well
as paedophiles?

Not "full" but certainly there are those in Church who are borderline
mentally ill, socially handicapped, disillusioned, and otherwise self
afflicted. They are sitting right along side folks who are loving,
accepting, and forgiving, and who will also hold them to account on a
personal level, where the church encourages small groups to meet during the
week outside of the congregational setting.

Either way, I'd rather have them in church, than roaming the streets. At
least in church, there's a chance that they will find the inner strength to
overcome their afflictions, as with AA, or any other faith based self help
program.

That's the whole point of Christianity by the way. Jesus' intention was not
to save the righteous, but to heal the sick, raise the dead, and cast out
demons. If you are sick of your own thoughts, feel dead on the inside, or
you have a past that haunts you, pretty much the best thing that can happen
for you is being convinced that you are not a worthless pile of steeping
dung who is either destined, or deserves to die a slow agonizing, self
medicated death. This is made (and proven) possible through the belief that
the creator of the universe knows of your afflictions, forgives you, and
wants better for you than you are allowing for yourself.

Face it, some people are in the psychological toilet, and the first step to
pulling themselves up, is to surrender to the idea of a divine existence
beyond the current sufferings of the mind, body, and emotions. This then
develops into a (good) source of inspiration and motivation to reach out in
healthful expression, as self gets out of the way. The self is never
forgotten, never truly free, but controlled in life, and expressed primarily
to the divine spirit in the privacy of prayer, unless you are otherwised
moved to share your pain with others in a secure, loving, and accepting
environment.

Respectfully voicing our grievances to God, he gives us in return the
strength to be good to others in the face of our weaknesses.

Free self help that's been around since long before psychology and
psychiatry became (costly) alternatives.


Finally, it's all beginning to make sense....


I hope so. Religion is a good thing. Without it, there would likely be a
doubling of all those ill minded behaviors which you ascribe to the church,
and the prisons would be unable to afford to contain them.

Word,
Steve Paul

In article ,
"A Believer" wrote:

"Chris.Bee" wrote in message

"It always comes down to threats. When logical argument is pointless
you threaten the opposition with your big, white robed Dad."

I didn't threaten. I made a true statement about all mankind eventually
being judged. Take it or leave it. I guess you choose the latter, but that
is your unfortunate decision.

The classic evasion of hypocritical bullies everywhere -- "Nice place
you have he wouldn't it be a shame if something happened to it."
Problem is, for such intimidation tactics to keep working you have to
follow through once in a while, as without such reinforcement the fear
on which you rely will eventually fade away.

--
Odysseus

Evolution? Astronomy? Ah, do we need a moderator here! Skip this nuttiness,
and buy Michael Shermer's Why Darwin Matters. $15.00.
Buy one for your local library while you're at it. Thank you, Charles
Darwin, for
your gift of evolution to the world.

--
W. eWatson

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

On Mar 17, 2:31*pm, "W. eWatson" wrote:
Evolution? Astronomy? Ah, do we need a moderator here! Skip this nuttiness,
and buy Michael Shermer's Why Darwin Matters. $15.00.
Buy one for your local library while you're at it. Thank you, Charles
Darwin, for
your gift of evolution to the world.

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * W. eWatson

* * * * * * * (121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
* * * * * * * *Obz Site: *39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

That's the trouble with this era , people tend to diminish the actual
evolutionary discoveries which cross disciplines,evolutionary biology
began in the study of rock strata with a basic evolutionary time-line
introduced by William Smith and all theses things eventually tie in
with astronomy via the climate history of the planet contained in the
strata , the stories they contain and the different effects geological
and climatological events had on life on this magnificent planetary
stage.

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolib.../_0/history_04

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/WilliamSmith/

It is difficult to avoid the racket created by Darwin and his
followers insofar as it distracts from the possibilities offered by
evolution is releasing information as to the appearance of
disappearance of lifeforms due to terrestrial conditions arising from
geological,climatological and more importantly,astronomical influences
be they short term events or long term changes due to the motions of
the Earth or indeed, some other factor.

The difference between genuine evolutionary investigations and the
racket of "survival of the fittest" is the difference between
interpretation and speculation,the former being a quality of those who
work in a cross disciplinary way as opposed to those who have a
blinkered one line approach of humans back to a pool of
chemicals.There is no question that Darwin simply hopped on
the'natural law' bandwagon,that he did it based on an essay on
national supremacy is contrary to the investigations of those who had
already added details to the existing evolutionary framework which
shows a much older and magnificent planetary stage.

Grow up.