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It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 14th 14, 03:09 PM posted to sci.space.shuttle
David E. Powell
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Posts: 231
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sanctions.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10828964/Russia-to-ban-US-from-using-Space-Station-over-Ukraine-sanctions.html

The seeds came when Space Station Freedom was cancelled in favor of the ISS. (The US paid a lot of the cost of building it, including spotting a lot of Russia's share of the cost.)

It would be very nice if we had ARES right now!

Wonder if the dorks in DC will get it together (good luck) and build it now? Get on your horses, DC! Manned space flight is the outreach - People watch NASA for Buck Rogers, you can't have him grounded and hold a crowd!
  #2  
Old May 14th 14, 07:13 PM posted to sci.space.shuttle
Jeff Findley[_4_]
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Posts: 411
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

In article ,
says...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sanctions.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10828964/Russia-to-ban-US-from-using-Space-Station-over-Ukraine-sanctions.html

The seeds came when Space Station Freedom was cancelled in
favor of the ISS. (The US paid a lot of the cost of building
it, including spotting a lot of Russia's share of the cost.)

It would be very nice if we had ARES right now!


No, it wouldn't. Ares is a launch vehicle. The US has plenty of launch
vehicles which can deliver payloads to ISS. What the US lacks are ISS
module(s) to replace the Russian modules. Specifically, the US lacks a
propulsion module (and other bits of functionality).

Wonder if the dorks in DC will get it together (good luck) and
build it now? Get on your horses, DC! Manned space flight is
the outreach - People watch NASA for Buck Rogers, you can't have
him grounded and hold a crowd!


SLS, Ares V's congressionally mandated replacement, isn't doing terribly
well. Costs are high and schedules are long. If you're looking for SLS
to "save" ISS by 2020, I'd start looking elsewhere.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #3  
Old May 14th 14, 10:20 PM posted to sci.space.shuttle
[email protected]
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Posts: 82
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

On Wed, 14 May 2014 07:09:46 -0700 (PDT), "David E. Powell"
wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sanctions.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10828964/Russia-to-ban-US-from-using-Space-Station-over-Ukraine-sanctions.html

The seeds came when Space Station Freedom was cancelled in favor of the ISS. (The US paid a lot of the cost of building it, including spotting a lot of Russia's share of the cost.)

It would be very nice if we had ARES right now!

Wonder if the dorks in DC will get it together (good luck) and build it now? Get on your horses, DC! Manned space flight is the outreach - People watch NASA for Buck Rogers, you can't have him grounded and hold a crowd!



It's so good to know that the United States has become dependent on Russia for
rocket engines. Something that the US was always good at making. What happened?
Boeing and Lockheed couldn't find a factory in china to make their rocket
engines for them so now we have to buy Russian engines? And I posed a question a
while back could the Russians deny us access and take over the ISS. I was told
no. Apparently they're doing just that. And we have no recourse? That's just
great.
  #4  
Old May 15th 14, 12:39 AM posted to sci.space.shuttle
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 82
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

On Wed, 14 May 2014 07:09:46 -0700 (PDT), "David E. Powell"
wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sanctions.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10828964/Russia-to-ban-US-from-using-Space-Station-over-Ukraine-sanctions.html

The seeds came when Space Station Freedom was cancelled in favor of the ISS. (The US paid a lot of the cost of building it, including spotting a lot of Russia's share of the cost.)

It would be very nice if we had ARES right now!

Wonder if the dorks in DC will get it together (good luck) and build it now? Get on your horses, DC! Manned space flight is the outreach - People watch NASA for Buck Rogers, you can't have him grounded and hold a crowd!


Can Russia utilize the ISS for long without the US being involved? Can we shut
down American modules? If they took it over and we eventually had a means to get
our astronauts up there would there be a battle over the station. I know it
sounds like fodder for a sci-fi action movie, but just wondering the
ramifications of Putin's posse cutting us off.
  #5  
Old May 15th 14, 02:46 AM posted to sci.space.shuttle
Bob Haller
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Posts: 3,197
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

ISS is aging, we would be far better off to perhaps harvest some parts and deorbit the rest.

If its run too long one day will see a major disaster. a truly bad day.

we must end dependence on russia.

make it illegal to do any business for anything space related..
  #6  
Old May 15th 14, 03:54 AM posted to sci.space.shuttle
Greg \(Strider\) Moore
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Posts: 790
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

"Jeff Findley" wrote in message
...

In article ,
says...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sanctions.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/10828964/Russia-to-ban-US-from-using-Space-Station-over-Ukraine-sanctions.html

The seeds came when Space Station Freedom was cancelled in
favor of the ISS. (The US paid a lot of the cost of building
it, including spotting a lot of Russia's share of the cost.)

It would be very nice if we had ARES right now!


No, it wouldn't. Ares is a launch vehicle. The US has plenty of launch
vehicles which can deliver payloads to ISS. What the US lacks are ISS
module(s) to replace the Russian modules. Specifically, the US lacks a
propulsion module (and other bits of functionality).



I wouldn't worry too much about that.

We can resurrect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISS_Propulsion_Module in the
worst case.

We can also perhaps rely on modified Falcon and ATV in the meantime.

On the other hand, my understanding is the Russian modules are tight on
power w/o the US.

And on the gripping hand, Russia loves its money. So we'll see how long
this all lasts.


Wonder if the dorks in DC will get it together (good luck) and
build it now? Get on your horses, DC! Manned space flight is
the outreach - People watch NASA for Buck Rogers, you can't have
him grounded and hold a crowd!


SLS, Ares V's congressionally mandated replacement, isn't doing terribly
well. Costs are high and schedules are long. If you're looking for SLS
to "save" ISS by 2020, I'd start looking elsewhere.


Hello Mr. Musk, we'd like to talk about some bulk purchases....


Jeff


--
Greg D. Moore http://greenmountainsoftware.wordpress.com/
CEO QuiCR: Quick, Crowdsourced Responses. http://www.quicr.net

  #7  
Old May 15th 14, 12:25 PM posted to sci.space.shuttle
Jeff Findley[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 411
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

In article , rfdjr1
@optonline.net says...
Can Russia utilize the ISS for long without the US being involved?
Can we shut down American modules? If they took it over and we
eventually had a means to get our astronauts up there would there
be a battle over the station. I know it sounds like fodder for a
sci-fi action movie, but just wondering the ramifications of
Putin's posse cutting us off.


The two things the US provides that would be deficient on the Russian
side might be power and attitude control gyros.

Not only does the US side have the biggest solar arrays, but if they are
no longer actively controlled, they could cast shadows on the Russian
arrays.

As far as control gyros, this might be a big problem if they're turned
off. Without them, the Russians would be forced to expend quite a bit
of fuel to run attitude control engines. This might mean that Progress
vessels would need to send up more fuel. In the past, Progress vehicles
were occasionally modified to carry much more fuel than normal. The
Russians might have to resort to that for some Progress flights
dedicated to delivering fuel and providing attitude control.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #9  
Old May 15th 14, 12:40 PM posted to sci.space.shuttle
Jeff Findley[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 411
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

In article , rfdjr1
@optonline.net says...

It's so good to know that the United States has become dependent on Russia for
rocket engines. Something that the US was always good at making. What happened?


Mostly, this is due to lack of investment. In other words, the
unwillingness for the US government to fund engine development coupled
with the lack of private investment in the same. Add to that the desire
to help convince the Russians to take control of former USSR nuclear
weapons in exchange for cold hard cash for their space agencies (engines
and ISS participation like Progress and Soyuz flights). This created an
environment ripe for the US to buy "cheap" Russian engines without
regard to the long term consequences.

Boeing and Lockheed couldn't find a factory in china to make their rocket
engines for them so now we have to buy Russian engines? And I posed a question a
while back could the Russians deny us access and take over the ISS. I was told
no. Apparently they're doing just that. And we have no recourse? That's just
great.


Sure they could, but at increased cost due to the way EELV's were being
funded (i.e. the US government paid quite a bit of that bill). The
government was already balking at the high cost of EELV development, so
I'm sure that this seemed like a good idea at the time.

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
  #10  
Old May 15th 14, 12:46 PM posted to sci.space.shuttle
Jeff Findley[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 411
Default It's Official: Russia cuts off US access to Space.

In article om,
says...

On 14-05-14 10:09, David E. Powell wrote:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...sanctions.html


If Russians stop sending soyuz/progress, then Europe can build a
"permanent" ATV that is refualable and dock it to the rear of the
station. There would still be 2 "russian" ports in case they are needed.


They could, but the cost would be high. Plus you'd have to refuel it
with another ATV anyway, so why not just replace it with a "fresh" ATV
every time?

It isn't clear to me that the CMGs would work on Z1 if they ditched the
russian segment without adding some counter weights.


"Counter weights" makes no sense. This is microgravity, remember? The
attitude engines used to desaturate the CMGs are quite necessary.


It is far more likely we will see SpaceX or the other guys
deliver some solution to this.


It should be possible to use a Cygnus and/or Dragon variant to provide
attitude control. But that's likely to get NASA all "up in their
business" with oversight, driving up the costs significantly.

Also, it is also quite possible that Russia would agree to donate its
segment to the ISS consortium.


Considering they have yet to hand over the "control codes" for the
Russian built parts of ISS that the US paid *cash* for and claims it
owns, I seriously doubt that would happen.

If at all, that message from Russia may be the kick in the derrière
the USA needs to rebuild its manned space programme and accelerate
funding of SpaceX and the other guys.


Possibly, but only if the Congresscritters agree. No bucks, no Buck
Rogers.

The work being done by Boeing apperas to just be Pork without
expectation of any deliverables.


What "work" is that specifically? Boeing does a lot of things for the
US Government, including their work on a "commercial" capsule for
commercial crew (I believe it's called CST-100).

Jeff
--
"the perennial claim that hypersonic airbreathing propulsion would
magically make space launch cheaper is nonsense -- LOX is much cheaper
than advanced airbreathing engines, and so are the tanks to put it in
and the extra thrust to carry it." - Henry Spencer
 




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