...My Agenda!

ransom wrote:
American

The Sephiroth of the Tree of Life has many rituals, yet all
must ascend to face judgement.



Kabbalahism versus Communism - you decide.
Me, I take a third path, and look to our Primate Progenitors to show us
the correct socio-economic path forward:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1024144314.htm
Marx Meets Machiavellian Macques! Reactionary Rhesus Royalists Reign! ;-)

Pat

Jonathan wrote:
"Eric Chomko" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 24, 10:19 pm, "Jonathan" wrote:
To witness the world returned to Nature, once and for all.

[...]

The system dynamics of self fullfilling prophecies, such as
this small event at the 68 Mexico Olympics

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/Mexico_1968.htm
"Polls have indicated that their demonstration was the
6th most memorable event of the 20th century"

Forget the politics, the most memorable event of the Mexico City
Olympics was Bob Beamon breaking the world record long jump by 21 3/4
inches! Having the judges inspect several tapes believing that they
were flawed, as no one breaks a mark like that but by only fractions
of an inch, etc. Yet he did it...

I don't recall if Beamon, who is black, raised his fist in a power
jesture on the podium.


Perhaps the Beijing Olympics will provide a moment where such
a small symbolic 'disturbance' could result in nothing less
than returning the world to nature. A tiny symbolic pebble
like this....

http://www.falunau.dyndns.org:8000/a...Children/index...

I hope one person does something great as Beamon did.


It just might be enough to /convince/ 'them' that such a disturbance
is planned, not actually stage it. And their own over reaction
will see to it 'something' happens.

In the proper conditions nature...'finds a way'.

Convincing 'them' something is planned to poliicize the Olympics
is within the grasp of a few, or even one, person.

I intend to find out if the math is correct.

Explain Beamon's long jump feat with your math....

...if you can!


Well that's easy. An emergent or complex solution is always
the dynamic combination of system specific opposite extremes.
Such as a democracy pitting the rule of law against freedoms.
Or with biological evolution a system combining the opposite
forces of genetics and mutation. Control vs chaos.
Or static vs chaotic.

This is the natural or optimum solution.

So, with high jumping, what are the system specific
opposite extremes in possibility.

Wouldn't it be horizontal and vertical velocity?

If one or the other dominates, the system fails.
If both are in equilibrium, and btw, at simultaneous
maximums, the system shines....is complex.


Or a diet for instance. The opposite extremes are
typically intake vs exercise. Which would define
the best diet? One or the other extremes, or
both combined?

In the affairs of man this seems to be true - 'The Power of Opposites'
- that something only has value (power) to the extent that its
opposite is also true. But what do you make of it for science? For
example the Nonsense of Plate Tectonics, ...pontificating 'the thing'
and its contradiction to have the same validity?
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/nonsense/subcrux.html
And indeed combining the two to give supposedly greater force.

What then?

The force of the event is magnified, in the case of
China, by...a billion. The Olympics for them is a
national coming out party.


As a Westerner, you have this cultural habit of thinking "wholesale" and
applying it to China.....the Chinese, on the other hand, ALWAYS think
"retail"! Short version: The Olympics don't mean **** to China, other than
as a particularly large trade fair....and if it doesn't end up turning a
profit, heads will roll (literally and figuratively)!

China doesn't have any government you or I would recognize....it's a cross
between a Mafia Family and Wal-Mart! EVERYTHING in China is
"fee-for-service"....you want it, you pay for it whether its a video game, a
4-lane highway, or a new supersonic fighter for the PLA! There are several
hundred versions of "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch" in Mandarin.
Their government is no different....it HAS to turn a profit, as do it's
subordinate branches.....and "cumshaw" was a firmly entrenched concept in
China while the West was still living in caves (back to that "retail"
fee-for-service motif I was discussing)! The Chinese live by the REAL
"Golden Rule" ("Those that have the gold--rule!) In the US, there's a
Starbucks on every corner.....in China, there's a bank!

BTW, they think WE'RE oppressed! We meekly pay taxes (like a VAT or sales
tax) that would have Chinese streets running in blood!

John

John Kepler wrote:
EVERYTHING in China is
"fee-for-service"....you want it, you pay for it whether its a video game, a
4-lane highway, or a new supersonic fighter for the PLA!


Big sale on exclamation points this week! ;-)

Pat

In sci.space.history message ,
Fri, 26 Oct 2007 09:39:49, Matthew Lybanon
posted:

Years ago the American Journal of Physics (the journal of the American
Association of Physics Teachers) had an article on the physics behind the
differences in performance due to the higher altitude of Mexico City. I'm
not sure if you can find the article online, but a university library should
have it.

http://scitation.aip.org/ajp/

American Journal of Physics -- June 1986 -- Volume 54, Issue 6, pp.
513-520 "How Olympic records depend on location" Ernie McFarland ??
PDF (782 kB) - subscribers only.


I liked
Motion of a leaky tank car
K. T. McDonald
Am. J. Phys. 59, 813 (1991)

--
(c) John Stockton, Surrey, UK. /
Web URL:http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/ - FAQish topics, acronyms, & links.
Correct = 4-line sig. separator as above, a line precisely "-- " (SoRFC1036)
Do not Mail News to me. Before a reply, quote with "" or " " (SoRFC1036)

Big sale on exclamation points this week! ;-)

Got an actual point.....or you just a misplaced/displaced English Major?

John

John Kepler wrote:
Big sale on exclamation points this week! ;-)


Got an actual point.....or you just a misplaced/displaced English Major?


History/Poli-Sci Major, English Minor.
The "Poli-Sci" part drives Rand Simberg mad for some reason I frankly
don't understand.

Pat

History/Poli-Sci Major, English Minor.


You have my condolences....what shift you working at Barnes & Noble?

"don findlay" wrote in message
ups.com...



In the affairs of man (due to his contrary nature - yes/no love/hate
poverty/riches etc+/ etc-) this seems to be true - 'The Power of
Opposites' (attract).... - that something only has value (power) to
the extent that its opposite is also 'true'. But what do you make of
it for the natural world (science)?


It's important to point out the opposite extremes I refer to are
not just in magnitude, or the inverse of each other.
They have to be opposites in behavior, within any given
system, one extreme (the static) representing that which
maintains order or is simple or little changing. While the other
would be that which tends to bring chaotic, unpredictable
or highly complicated behavior. For instance, with Darwin
the opposite extremes, or static and chaotic attractors
would be genetics and mutation. They are two
completely different 'things', not just mirror images.

One realm, the static (genetics in the example) in the
most abstract represents classical or Newtonian-like behavior,
simple, orderly and deterministic.
The opposite, the chaotic (mutation in the example)
ultimately is quantum-like behavior.

I would think the ultimate example would be the
duality of light. With the static filled by matter
and the chaotic by energy. Two different things.
While they are intractably entangled together
within a single system, a new emergent property
is spontaneously created....light.

Or with Darwin, when the two opposites are in
an unstable equilibrium with each other, a third
attractor type emerges, a dynamic attractor such
as natural selection is created.

If static attractors act as solids, chaotic attractors
behave as a gas, then a dynamic attractor that
emerges from the interaction of the opposites
defines fluids.


static, dynamic, chaotic
solid, liquid, gas
genetics, natural selection, mutation
matter, light, energy
law, democracy, freedom
science, art, religion

unchanging......cyclic order.....constantly changing

And so on, any system at all can be defined in
these terms.

earth, water, air when the system is our biosphere
for instance.

These two opposite extremes in system behavior
are ...always....different 'things'. You can never
put an equal sign between them, which is why
the search for a Grand Unified Theory, which
seeks to merge the two behaviors, is so futile.

You just cannot equate, or use a single math, on
two entirely different kinds of motion or behavior.

HOWEVER...we can do something different, instead
of trying to force the opposites, classical and quantum
motion, together somehow...putting the egg back together.
We go and look where they are already merged into a
single system....unbroken...natural.

As in a cloud, where water chaotically transitions
to vapor and back again. Water being the relatively
static form in this case, and vapor filling the
chaotic realm. What emerges from that delicate
transition or "edge state" is more than either alone.
Spontaneous cyclic order emerges, the system
begins to organize and maintain itself at that
delicate and narrow transition state....it EVOLVES.

"Modern Science" derives it's fundamental laws
from one opposite of the other, classical or quantum
motion. Two sets of laws, entirely different (of course).

Complexity science derives its laws only where
the two realms are already combined. From the
output of an intact whole system. Not from
the parts of a dismembered (dead) system.
Remember when you slap light against some
detector you'll always get one opposite or
the other, particle or wave. And (of course)
half of each, just as you would a cloud if
you could stop it for a second and count
the molecules (water or vapor). Since they
are chaotically or randomly transitioning
back and forth, and in equilibrium, how much
you wanna bet the count would be exactly
50-50 also? Of course it would.




For example the Nonsense of Plate
Tectonics? It is we who pontificate 'the thing' and its
contradiction at the same time and assign them the same validity,
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/nonsense/subcrux.html
..not nature. And indeed combine the two to give supposedly greater
force. In nature there is only one correct option. Things are not
paired 'in extremis' .


Oh yes they are, natural is defined by the fact a system equally
displays both extremes at once so that one can't tell which dominates.
All order in the universe...RESULTS...from that equilibrium.
It is the source of cyclic order, self organization and evolution.

Gravity (that which seeks to maintain order, or bring
simplicity over time...to coalesce) is the static opposite.
Cosmic expansion the other chaotic attractor.
Space or inertia I guess ...a universe..is the emergent
dynamic attractor that results from the equilibrium
between opposites of gravity and expansion.
Dynamic 'fluid like' behavior (space) emerges from the
equilibrium between opposites.


Attraction would seem to be the opposite of
repulsion (from the viewpoint of human experience, but is it, in the
real world? Is 'no mass' really the opposite of 'mass'?

Energy is the opposite of mass. Mass behaves classically
while energy behaves chaotically.

What is
the opposite of an atom?

A system is the opposite of a component. But remember
this is a /relativistic/ approach to defining systems.
An atom can be treated as a system too, and its quarks etc
as the components. It depends on the ...observer.
This is important, the observer defines ...arbitrarily... the
system boundaries. Whether to treat an atom as part
of a greater whole, or as a system with it's own components.
Just like relativity, the observer is now part of the 'calculations'
so to speak. Which means this is a subjective science.

What people fail to understand is that different observers CAN
make the same observations. Because each and
every system is defined relative to ITSELF...It's
own opposite extremes in possible behavior.
NOT relative some independent yardstick or
other things as in objective measurements.

Only in this way can subjective observations agree.
By first defining the system, then it's opposite extremes.
....it's static and chaotic behavior.

And voila! Holistic (subjective) methods and observations
are now real-repeatable-testable science.

And voila! The Grand Unified Theory is rendered simple
and obvious. Don't you see why? When you subjectively
examine the ultimate of all systems, what is its universal
static and chaotic extremes? And what is the ultimate
emergent dynamic attractor?

The ultimate opposite extremes are classical and quantum
motion, what emerges from their interaction is spontaneous
or cyclic order.....self organization emerges at the edge
between classical and quantum like behavior.

It is LIFE or Darwin that emerges from the ultimate universal
opposites.

static, dynamic, chaotic
matter, life, energy

One system, one mathematics that can deal as easily with
classical and quantum realms as it does with biology.

The earth is neither just rock, or all gas, but
both extremes are in an unstable equilibrium with
each other. Neither frozen solid or Venus hot.
But chaotically transitioning, on the edge, of
one extreme or the other. Like a cloud, on a
very narrow and delicate fence between one form
or the other. Such edge states, like the surface
of the earth, self organize, they evolve the
ability to regulate itself as an evolving whole.

Right now the entire world is debating whether
we should take control or not with the global
warming debate...for instance.

Where matter and energy, simple and chaotic motion
are in equilibriium or...where geology and the atmosphere
are in equilibrium....life evolves. Just like a cloud.
They ALL follow the same laws. And since
we are deriving our laws from the output, the whole
not the parts. This means the fundamental laws
of the universe are supposed to be derived from
what emerges from the opposites.....from life.

Life defines the physical universe.
The most complex the universe has to offer
NOT the simplest, is the true source of
fundamental law.

What is the opposite of 'sky'? a mountain?
a river? Or that pile of ****e with an aresehole that calls itself
Big Al?


For geology, the opposites would be, of course, that
which maintains order vs that which brings chaos.
Change that is slow, predictable and incremental
vs change that is chaotic and unpredictable.
Cyclic change vs catastrophic change.

Tell me, when looking at the surface of the earth
which opposite dominates???

Is it sea floor spreading (orderly...static) or earthquakes
and volcanes and such (unpredictable....chaotic)?

Which opposite dominates???

If you can't really tell, if both opposite forms are in an
unstable equilibrium with each other quess what
you have? An edge state. Which follows the same laws as any
other edge state. Meaning change follows a power law.
Countless minor changes combined with the rare big ones.

The whole CANNOT be defined by one or the other.
Only by both. Neither sea floor or mountain building
defines how the earth evolves.

An edge state, all edge states, cannot be quantified
exactly, their history can never be reconstructed
precisely. No more than the path of a cloud, an
idea or emotion.

THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE REALITY.

As nothing stands still long enough to be objectified
so we can't know the present exactly.
Power law change means random/catastrophic events
wipe out much of the past.

Only the future can be precisely defined.

Stop trying to unravel the past to understand reality.
That is futile.

static, dynamic, chaotic
past, present, future

Reality cannot be defined by one extreme...the past.
We must define the ....FUTURE GODDAMMIT.

With the same level of detail and science as we've
been doing with the past and present. Then our
present reality (path through possibility space)
can be known. After all, we can't define our path
through the universe (reality) only by looking back
at where we've been. As that path is strewn with
random events. We have to know where we're
heading also. Then reality can start to make some
sense.

Without the third component (future as a science)
our reality drifts, is random and unknowable.
With it our paths are directed.



What then?


You'll realize that Utopia (emergent creation) resides
where one can't tell if the past or future dominates.
Utopia is found only in the here-and-now.
Every minute we have alive is the gift of all gifts
in the known universe.

But only if we 'live' in the future as much as
we live in the past.



"To be alive is power,
Existence in itself,
Without a further function,
Omnipotence enough.

To be alive and Will
'T is able as a God!
The Further of ourselves be what
Such being Finitude?"



s

On Sat, 27 Oct 2007 16:14:29 -0500, in a place far, far away, Pat
Flannery made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:



John Kepler wrote:
Big sale on exclamation points this week! ;-)


Got an actual point.....or you just a misplaced/displaced English Major?


History/Poli-Sci Major, English Minor.
The "Poli-Sci" part drives Rand Simberg mad for some reason I frankly
don't understand.

No, it doesn't. I just find it amusing. If anyone is "mad" around
here, it's you, Pat.